help with dataplate info please

cmp_uc_guy · #1 18-04-05, 23:15

hey guys, would you mind helping me understand this data plate,

I've purchased it sight unseen. (Cousin says its in great shape) it even has the inside door stenciling.

C-15441-M-VAN-2
Chassis Model C-15441-M
Cab-13
1942
Maint.Man. - M311

Thanks!

David_Hayward (RIP) · #2 19-04-05, 00:15

1942? built Chevrolet C15A originally with Van-2 body, Number 13 cab. However I would like to know if possible the serial or chassis number. This is an example of the data plate off a similar truck:

VEHICLE MODEL
C-15441-M-VAN-2

[seperate plate]

GENERAL MOTORS OF CANADA LTD
OSHAWA CANADA
CHASSIS MODEL C-15441-M
CAB MODEL 13
CHASSIS SERIAL 2844425990
ENGINE SERIAL WR3851519
ORDER NO LV 311
DATE OF MFG SEPT. 24-42

Note the Canadian contract C.D.L.V. 311...I wonder if M311 ties in here? I cannot see any British contracts for Van-2 C15As in 1942, although there were some British orders for Van-6 "Office" bodies, by Canadian Top and Body.

Tony Smith · #3 19-04-05, 01:43

Quote:

Originally posted by cmp_uc_guy
Maint.Man - M311

Quote:

Originally posted by David_Hayward
Note the Canadian contract C.D.L.V. 311...I wonder if M311 ties in here? I cannot see any British contracts for Van-2 C15As in 1942, although there were some British orders for Van-6 "Office" bodies, by Canadian Top and Body.

Could this be a mis-stamping? The Maintenance Manual should be MB-C1, not a contract number. Does the MB-C1 look like M311?

cmp_uc_guy · #4 19-04-05, 03:25

Thankyou guys,

Man Thats more than I could have thought possible,

The thing is this is information from a "scratching" of the data plate by my cousin and I'm sure when he read it to me over the phone that he jumbled some of it up like the M311 thing.

So what your saying is this is a VAN body like a HUP, Any links to a picture?

He is farmiliar with my F15a and says it has a box like mine on the back...GS.

Rob

cliff · #5 19-04-05, 07:37

No they are not saying a Van body like a HUP. As you said 'Boxes' like yours were called 'Vans' in certain types which meant in most cases a Canvas van body. A lot could not be told apart from a normal GS CMP except by those in the know.

Cheers
Cliff

David_Hayward (RIP) · #6 19-04-05, 09:18

In addition we know that some VAN-x trucks to British contract were rebuilt with completely different bodies.

cliff · #7 19-04-05, 10:14

here are 4 pics of van bodied CMP's. You can see with these pics they are not much different to a GS version.

The word 'VAN' has a different meaning by the army compared to our thoughts on what a van is.

Pic 1

cliff · #8 19-04-05, 10:14

pic 2

cliff · #9 19-04-05, 10:15

pic 3

cliff · #10 19-04-05, 10:15

Pic 4

Hanno Spoelstra · #11 19-04-05, 11:29

Quote:

Originally posted by cmp_uc_guy
So what your saying is this is a VAN body like a HUP, Any links to a picture?

He is farmiliar with my F15a and says it has a box like mine on the back...GS.

Like Cliff said, a 'van' is a GS body with hoops and canvas. The early 15-cwts did not have roof bows - just a tarp covering the cargo body. When later GS versions were fitted with roof bows, these were designated 'van'.
Post a pic of your new truck, please.

H.

cmp_uc_guy · #12 19-04-05, 14:28

I'm on my way to see it today,

I'll post a picture, or several when I get back tonight.

Thanks again for the info

Rob

cmp_uc_guy · #13 20-04-05, 15:19

Here are the photos from yesterdays trip to see the Chev.

cmp_uc_guy · #14 20-04-05, 15:26

Side and Data plate

Here's the chassis # you wanted to see.

cmp_uc_guy · #15 20-04-05, 16:56

Can anyone post a high res straight on picture of a good version of this dash.

I plan to make a screen for screening the original white to the reverse of a new glass plate.

cmp_uc_guy · #16 20-04-05, 16:57

.

Bob Moseley (RIP) · #17 22-04-05, 00:28

Hi CMP-UC-GUY
Why bother reinventing the wheel? This is what I do. This image is one of my restorations.
Bob

cmp_uc_guy · #18 22-04-05, 04:07

Bob that saves me alot of work.

Rob

David_Hayward (RIP) · #19 22-04-05, 08:44

Wow! What skill!

Tony Smith · #20 22-04-05, 16:07

My word, Bob, you have a stunning cluster there!

Bob Moseley (RIP) · #21 23-04-05, 14:08

I know Tony. The instrument panel is also pretty good.
Modest Bob

cmp_uc_guy · #22 23-04-05, 15:24

Did you notice that the serial in the picture I posted and the one David provided is only off by 54!

Tony Smith · #23 23-04-05, 16:43

Quote:

Originally posted by cmp_uc_guy
Did you notice that the serial in the picture I posted and the one David provided is only off by 54!

And the same date!

It would be interesting to compare other vehicles from this contract, David, and see how the dates compare. We discussed this "date" issue in regard to C8AX's and wondered at the signifigance of only three different dates appearing for the C8AX contract.

David_Hayward (RIP) · #24 25-04-05, 10:23

This is the up-to-date listing of allknown C8AX serials:

ALL S/M 2394:
[ASSEMBLED BY G.M. NEW ZEALAND, CODE XH]
XH8448-275 MFGD. MAY 4 1943
XH8448-377 ENGINE # FR3,863,573 MFGD. MAY 5 1943
XH8448-382 ENGINE # FR3,863,937 MFGD. MAY 5 1943
XH8449-394 ENGINE # FR3.863,668 MFGD. MAY 5 1943
XH8448-428 MFGD. MAY 5 1943
XH8448-496 ENGINE # FR3,863,872 MFGD. MAY 5 1943
XH8448-502 ENGINE # FR3,863,593 MFGD. MAY 5 1943
XH8448-564 MFGD. MAY 5 1943
XH8448-606 ENGINE # FR3,864,085 MFGD. MAY 5 1943
XH8448-657 ENGINE # FR3,864,068 MFGD. MAY 5 1943
XH8448-718 ENGINE # FR3,864,330 MFGD. JUNE 5 1943
XH8448-834 MFGD. JUNE 5 1943
XH8448-870 ENGINE # FR3,863,514 MFGD. JUNE 5 1943
XH8448-890 MFGD. JUNE 5 1943

So,how come we have #896 on May 5, and then we have variance between 'MAY' etc. and:

GENERAL MOTORS OF CANADA C8AX
CHASSIS MODEL C.15441
CAB MODEL 13
CHASSIS SERIAL XH8448-377
ENGINE SERIAL FR3863668
ORDER 2394
DATE OF MFG 5 MAY 43

GENERAL MOTORS OF CANADA C8AX
CHASSIS MODEL C.15441
CAB MODEL 13
CHASSIS SERIAL XH8448-394
ENGINE SERIAL FR3863668
ORDER 2394
DATE OF MFG 5 MAY 43

GENERAL MOTORS OF CANADA C8AX
CHASSIS MODEL C.15441
CAB MODEL 13
CHASSIS SERIAL XH8448-502
ENGINE SERIAL FR3863593
ORDER 2394
DATE OF MFG 5 5- 43

GENERAL MOTORS OF CANADA C8AX
CHASSIS MODEL C.15441
CAB MODEL 13
CHASSIS SERIAL XH8448-718
ENGINE SERIAL FR3864330
ORDER 2394
DATE OF MFG 5 JUNE 43

where the '5' for the month of May is to the left of the plate and '5-43' to the right! I can only suspect that someone was using the letter stamp at the time and the guy or gal who had tos stamp just used a number stamp instead. I am inclined to believe that this was a 'release' date from the plant. Was # 896 chassis held back for rectification after assembly for some reason, and then had its engine installed so qualified for a late serial #?

I have been trying to work out roughly when the engines used in the C8AX chassis were built by Windsor.The best I can come up with is late 1941, as 1942 Model engine #s as quoted started at # 3946838. I would suggest August/September 1941?? CKD production at Oshawa stopped in September 1941 and then restarted in October starting with 1,884 units rising to over 4,000 units per month by mid-1942.

Tony Smith · #25 25-04-05, 12:59

David, -377, -496 and -502 are 5-5-43, while -594 and -606 are 5 May 43. Going on the engine number, this is the truck you have listed as -896!

Tony Smith · #26 25-04-05, 13:02

David, note that where the month is spelt out, the form is 5 MAY 43, 5 JUNE 43 or 5 JULY 43 as the case may be. Note this truck is -594, not -394 in your list. This might begin to explain why there is a difference between 5-5-43 and 5 MAY 43. It would appear that the 5-5-43 only appears on lower serial numbers and was changed to avoid confusion between the American mm-dd-yy and the British dd-mm-yy.
Do you have a range of dates for C15As in the LV311 contract?

David_Hayward (RIP) · #27 25-04-05, 13:47

Thank gooooodness for that...a transcription error! Yes, I am sure now that it was either a different interpretation OR there were two at least people doing stamping and someone used a digit stamp instead of letters for some reason.

This is my complete listing for 1942 C15A serials:

Holden serials [CKD]/ early Oshawa SUP:
2844400189P ENGINE # WR3,859,926 MAY 5 1944 [PERTH-ASSEMBLED]
2844400312S [SYDNEY-ASSEMBLED]
2844400325M ENGINE # WR3,816,063 Contract SM2196 WO18 [MELBOURNE-ASSEMBLED]
2844400396S ENGINE # WR3,851,568 [SYDNEY-ASSEMBLED]
2844400439S ENGINE # WR3,821,426 [SYDNEY-ASSEMBLED]
2844400447 ENGINE # WR3,762,557 [?-ASSEMBLED]
2844400469 ENGINE # WR3,763,625
2844400493 ENGINE # WR3,763,620
2844400503 ENGINE # WR3,763,662
2844400652M ENGINE # WR3,860,226 [MELBOURNE-ASSEMBLED]
2844400679M ENGINE # WR3,860,220 FEBRUARY 24 1943 [MELBOURNE-ASSEMBLED]
2844400713M ENGINE # WR3,859,790 [MELBOURNE-ASSEMBLED]
2844400719M ENGINE # WR3,859,771 [MELBOURNE-ASSEMBLED]
2844400807M ENGINE # WR3,860,120 APRIL 3 1943 [MELBOURNE-ASSEMBLED]
2844400842M ENGINE # PR3,859,828 [MELBOURNE-ASSEMBLED]

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oshawa serials:
2844402084
2844402137
2844402219
2844402290
2844402442
2844411688
2844413641 ENGINE # WR3,812,972 C.D.L.V. 316 MAY 12 1942
2844419324 ENGINE # WR3,840,943 S/M 2564 JULY 16 1942
2844419447 ENGINE # WR3,840,887
2844419686
2844419763
2844419910
2844420433
2844420436 JULY 29 1942
2844420692
2844421984
2844422010
2844425880 ENGINE # WR3,851,419 C.D.L.V. 311 SEPTEMBER 24 1942 Z 5777485
2844425936 ENGINE # WR3,852,746 C.D.L.V. 311 SEPTEMBER 24 1942
2844425990 ENGINE # WR3,851,519 C.D.L.V. 311 SEPTEMBER 24 1942

C15441-M CAB 13 #WR3,880,534 CONTRACT C.D.L.V. 317. JULY 15 1942

GENERAL MOTORS OF CANADA
MADE IN GM CANADA
OSHAWA WALKERVILLE REGINA
MODEL 84-44
SERIAL 2844400469
ENGINE 3763625 BODY SERIAL 435
TRIM WR PAINT F.C.98

Canadian Top & Body Code & Serial No. 3-2-JI-10007

GENERAL MOTORS OF CANADA
MADE IN GM CANADA
OSHAWA WALKERVILLE REGINA
MODEL 84-44
SERIAL 2844400447
ENGINE 3762557 BODY SERIAL 469
TRIM WR PAINT F.C.98

GENERAL MOTORS OF CANADA
MADE IN GM CANADA
OSHAWA WALKERVILLE REGINA
MODEL 84-44
SERIAL 2844400503
ENGINE 3763662 BODY SERIAL 505
TRIM WR PAINT F.C.98

GENERAL MOTORS OF CANADA LTD
OSHAWA CANADA
CHASSIS MODEL C-15441-M
CAB MODEL 13
CHASSIS SERIAL 2844413641
ENGINE SERIAL WR3812972
ORDER NO LV 316
DATE OF MFG MAY 12-42

GENERAL MOTORS OF CANADA
OSHAWA CANADA
CHASSIS MODEL C15441-VAN-6
CAB MODEL 13
CHASSIS SERIAL 2844419324
ENGINE SERIAL WR3840943
ORDER SM 2564
DATE OF MFG JULY 16 42

VEHICLE MODEL
C-15441-M-VAN-2

GENERAL MOTORS OF CANADA LTD
OSHAWA CANADA
CHASSIS MODEL C-15441-M
CAB MODEL 13
CHASSIS SERIAL 2844425990
ENGINE SERIAL WR3851519
ORDER NO LV 311
DATE OF MFG SEPT. 24-42

You can see my data for C.D.L.V. 311 contract. The suggestion is therefore that over 100 units, perhaps 150, of the same type could be assembled by Oshawa in one day. I have not got any data for monthly production for Oshawa but Windsor Transmission Plant assembled 5,715 Chev 216 engines in August 1942 and 6,688 in September. I assume that they had 7-day working? Allowing for spares and requirements for use in MCPs,may I suggest that 120 CMPs per day was reasonable given the evidence? I seem to remember that in autumn 1940 production was to be ramped up to over 100 units per day because of the British orders BUT there was of course civilian demand still at the time.

Tony Smith · #28 25-04-05, 14:06

So, so far, all the dates for the three C15As to CDLV 311 (284425880, -936 and -990) we know about are all dated September 24 1942. What's going on with these small contracts? 110 trucks in a single day?

David_Hayward (RIP) · #29 25-04-05, 14:30

Quote:

..in Canada, the M.G.O, wrote to the Secretary, D.M.S. stating that he understood that instructions had been given to Ford and G.M. to tool up to the point of being capable of producing 100 C.M.P. units per day. The companies should initiate production at that level as soon as possible, he requested. It was also suggested that the companies create banks of components in finished, semi-finished and raw states sufficient to permit either company entering production of finished units at the 100-per-day level in not more than 15 days from receipt of instruction to do so. If this suggestion was adopted maximum production could be realised at least 60 days earlier than by other methods

Source: 4 September 1940: Letter: P.A. Crester, M.G.O. to Secretary, D.M.S., File 8186-2 and 8186-2-1, Canadian National Archives

Tony Smith · #30 25-04-05, 15:36

Quote:

Originally posted by David_Hayward
2844425880 ENGINE # WR3,851,419 C.D.L.V. 311 SEPTEMBER 24 1942 Z 5777485
2844425990 ENGINE # WR3,851,519 C.D.L.V. 311 SEPTEMBER 24 1942
2844425990 ENGINE # WR3,851,519 C.D.L.V. 311 SEPTEMBER 24 1942

You can see my data for C.D.L.V. 311 contract. The suggestion is therefore that over 100 units, perhaps 150, of the same type could be assembled by Oshawa in one day.

David, another transcription error, you've entered the same truck twice and not entered -936!