Another Dodge D8A found in Italy?

[gustavo]

Hi Hanno, hi all,
just yesterday I bought a Dodge project that might be a T212, I need your help to understand if this will be the 4th known D8A survivor in the world or just something else.
This truck was found widely modified (it was transformed in a wrecker, moving the steering wheel from right to left).
The cargo body is missing.
The previous owner decided to "americanize" it painting the whole thing of OD and inverting in the cab the instrument panel from right to left, but the project was abandoned and I bought it.
The advert was describing this vehicle as a WC40, but I was immediately attracted by the yellow (desert stone) paint on the frame.
Despite of the left hand drive, I noticed that on the frame there were all the holes on the right part to install the steering gearbox.
The frame is marked 916662, this seems the part number more than the frame number but I am not sure.
The axles seem to be Canadian but the installed hubs are not (this vehicle was found equiped with 900x16 tires and US rims, coming from a 3/4 ton Dodge).
Unfortunately I don't own any of the T212 manuals and up to now I was unable to find a copy somewhere.
To be short, these are the reasons why I think this could be a T212:

1) yellow paint on the frame: as far as I know only Canadian vehicles were factory painted desert stone, and this can not be a Dodge D15.
2) frame number prefix 91
3) floorboards of the same size and appearance as T212
4) rear fenders, modified to fit on the truck but seem original and yellow
5) cab: out of discussion the cab could be a D8A or D15 cab (they should be identical)
6) wheelbase as of T212

Despite of this, due to the lack of available information, I am unable to clearly state if this is a D8A or not: any suggestion or support is welcome!
Thank you in advance for your comments.
Gustavo

[Hanno Spoelstra]

What an exiting find Gustavo, I think you may well be right!

[Mike K]

Good find. Have a look at the rear end of the chassis rails, the T212 had those unusual eye towing devices

The wheels on your truck may have been changed back to the US type, but I believe the T212 had special brake drums to accept the 6 stud C8A type rims .

A chap in Brisbane did a T212 , I passed on the rear body drawings to him. I think he had new drums cast , he had the truck at Corowa one year.

Is the RH chassis rail drilled for the steering box ? Hard to see from your pics

Has the instrument panel been relocated ? I had a couple of US 1/2 Tonners with RHD conversions done by previous butchers , they usually cut out the rectangular instrument panel, remove the glove compartment door and weld the instrument panel over the glove compartment

[gustavo]

Thank you very much for your comments.
On the right side of the frame the steering box holes are visible, but it is also visible on the left side a frame number that refers to the American production: 81523208. This number could have been added postwar for the civilian registration, so I will sand blast the frame as soon as it will be at home to search for other numbers.
The Canadian S/N should be 8 digits starting with 91, at the time being the stamped number I found is 916662.

[gustavo]

Here is the rear side of the frame

[Pete Ashby]

How very interesting, the frame part numbers for a D15 they are as follows 929030 Right hand rail, 929031 Left hand rail so what ever the truck is it's not a D15

Good luck with the research and keep posting your findings
Pete

[gustavo]

Thank you Pete,
by chance do you know where to find the frame P/N for the T212?
Or any T212 manual

[Mike K]

Originally Posted by gustavo

Thank you Pete,
by chance do you know where to find the frame P/N for the T212?
Or any T212 manual

I had a generic Canadian Dodge parts book that included the T212. The T215 chassis frames I had were configured for either LHD or RHD , but the Right hand rail was drilled for the steering box on the inside rail only, the outer rail was not drilled , whereas the LH rail was drilled right through both sections. I don't want to be negative but it appears you have a T215 US built truck .

[gustavo]

This is a important information, so the T215 frames could be easily transformed in RHD and this is most probably what happened to my truck.
I guess you are right, Wednesday this week I will collect the truck and see how the things are. At the time being it seems that it is NOT a D8A

[Mike K]

Don't let me put you off . I think there needs to more evidence given in order for us to work out a answer. In your pic, I do see the holes on the rear end of the chassis rails for the towing eyes, these eyes seem to be peculiar to the T212 so don't give up yet ! Do we know where Chrysler Canada sourced the frames from ? Did CC make the frames or import them from over the border ?

[Alex van de Wetering]

Exciting Gustavo!

So, the main question is if the holes for the steering box in the right hand rail are all the way through, right?.....or maybe evidence can be found of them being welded up.

Please keep us updated. In any case you have a rare truck; I mean, even if it's not a D8A, but a WC40 in stread, it would still be rare.

[Mike K]

Gustavo

It was a long time ago since I was playing around with 1/2 Ton Dodge's so don't take anything I write seriously My memories is of those days is definitely fading somewhat ... I wish I had kept that Canadian Chrysler pats book I have some pics of Warren's T212 somewhere

[gustavo]

Today it's the day: I will examine the frame and post some pictures, and... Looking for numbers.

[Mike K]

The Brisbane replica

[Mike K]

A RHD WC 21 I bought in 1978... they fitted a TJR cab

Mishap when loading. big load for the little rover

[gustavo]

Today I got the frame: 99.9% it is NOT a D8A, most probably a T215.
It seems that RHD hole has never been cut, this frame has always been a LHD.
Last unexplained mistery is the desert stone paint, sprayed directly on the frame : this is the reason why the score is not 100%.
The American Dodge frame numbers are the original ones.
I guess after the war someone bought this open cab truck, removed the cargo bed and exchanged the open cab with a D15 cab to improve comfort.

Now the question is what to do with this frame, I am thinking at 2 options:

1) Go back on originality, asking to Chrisler the build card of this frame to understand how it was when it left the production line.

2) Go ahead building a D8A replica, trying to be as accurate as possible.

Option 1 would respect originality but the final result would be one of the many, option 2 will give the chance to many to see how this rare vehicle was.

In the next days I will visit a farm close to my home where I saw several trailers made after ww2 using Canadian wheels: I know for sure I will find at least 4 wheels (6 bolts), wight now I am interested to see their hubs. If it is possible to put together 4 British hubs, may be option 2 will go ahead.

Cargo bed is probably not so complicate to rebuild after a visit in Austria.

Thank you very much again for your support.

[gustavo]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

A RHD WC 21 I bought in 1978... they fitted a TJR cab

Mishap when loading. big load for the little rover

I am sure you didn't find policemen on the way back!
Did the front wheels touch the ground?

[gustavo]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

Don't let me put you off . I think there needs to more evidence given in order for us to work out a answer. In your pic, I do see the holes on the rear end of the chassis rails for the towing eyes, these eyes seem to be peculiar to the T212 so don't give up yet ! Do we know where Chrysler Canada sourced the frames from ? Did CC make the frames or import them from over the border ?

At all the effects 3 holes are there.
2 of them are fitting the American bumperette, I don't know if the third one is there also on the American frames.

[Mike K]

Originally Posted by gustavo

I am sure you didn't find policemen on the way back!
Did the front wheels touch the ground?

You are correct, we had a break at a cafe where the cops stopped and had a look but they let us go The Land Rover belonged to Bevan Fenner , he was confident about its towing ability but it was a scary, slow trip back. Keith Hall, the guy we bought the WC21 from, was rather doubtful about our chances but the little Land Rover did the job......just .

Go for the D8A ...biggest problem will be the hubs for the CMP type wheels . Warren had some made specially