T-36 Iron Fireman Snow Tractor help wanted

gordon · #1 22-05-11, 12:21

Just had the new toy delivered. I have a shot or two of it in 2004, presumably in northern California or southern Oregon, parked next to what I think is a green and yellow Power Wagon;

I'm keen to get in touch with previous owners to try and get my hands on the one critical missing part - the dash, with the serial plate on.

Anyone else have any info, literature, reports on these? Anyone else know of another survivor?

gordon(at)dodge.org.uk

Paul Singleton · #2 22-05-11, 17:37

Hi Gordon, I don't know anything about your new toy, but the truck in the background is a 1964 to '66 Chevrolet.

Paul

Lynn Eades · #3 22-05-11, 21:31

are you sure? It looks to me like Gordon (King of Dodge)said. Power wagon wm300?

gordon · #4 28-05-11, 17:45

Ah well, too new for me.

I've been tinkering with the new toy today and uncovered a few things.

Just in front of the cab is a space and hatch designed to take the same engine heater flue as you find on the contemporary M7 Snow Tractor, as seen in the pics;

There are twin fuel tanks with isolation taps, but only the right hand tank had a gauge in it. Presumably in normal use both isolators would be open, both tanks on line, and the fuel would find its own level, which would be reflected on the guage.

The two main side windows to each side of the driver, plus the rear window, have been configured as panels that can be lifted in and out. All the front end glazing and probably both doors have just been glazed as normal, but the front top left and top right panels have hinged out on military slides.

There's a large rectangular rivetted section in the centre of the roof panel, looks like there has been a hatch, or provision for one, off the assembly line. It's worth noting that the orange overpaint has reacted with all the original white camo on the roof, but not on the rectangular insert. Also it has been fitted using exactly the same rivet type as the original roof structure, so it is post production line but possibly factory rework before selling on to the civilian market.

Just like the Weasel, the driver had the ability to open or close a hatch on the radiator inlet duct from the drivers seat position. I'd guess it was normally shut for warm-up and bad weather / deep powder snow operation, but could be opened remotely if the engine temperature got hotter than it should be.

The engine, transmission, and engine compartment are Dodge silver, and the outside of the cab has obviously been white originally, but a lot of the door surrounds, battery box cover, and other panelling has olive drab on it.

Oil pressure gauge output at the block has an electric sender unit in place of the normal piping to the gauge. Wouldn't have been reading very high as when I pulled the dipstick it was absolutely bone dry, not even a sign of oil on it. The sump looks intact, and all the oil lines and filter connections are OK, so I'm hoping it has just dripped out of the sump over the last half century when it has been stood.

Conversely the radiator and cooling system are full.

Today's most puzzling discovery is the date info. I'd already noted the T214 engine casting date as 7-11 and the head as 6-17, and I assumed they referred to 1944 production as that is when all the T-36s were supposed to have been made ( Crismon ) However on checking the transmission I found it is dated 6-5-43, so I'm now assuming the whole vehicle is exactly a year older than I thought, being made mid-43. There's no way that transmission has been out of there in the last half century, and it is painted into a unit with bellhousing, block, and head.

Added later - well I went and checked the Build Card listing for T214 numbers and dates. I found T214-175076 dated April 6th 1944, and T214-192914 dated August 1st 1944, and the T-36 engine is T214-191328, so July '44 it is. Must have had a transmission swap back in the day and got a '43 transmission, as there's no way a transmission would be sitting around for a year during a war.

maple_leaf_eh · #5 28-05-11, 19:51

Any knowledge of the manufacturer or production details? The interweb is a funny place, so there must be a user group for oversnow vehicles ... ?

gordon · #6 28-05-11, 20:38

Unfortunately the serial plate is missing from this one, so I don't know what the chassis number is. Bound to be between 1 and 36 tho'

I'm sure they would have been made at the Portland, Oregon plant and probably didn't go very far as technically they just aren't that great.

I have heard rumours of a second survivor, but only rumours. Nothing solid, and no images or info online for the last 20 years except this one.

cletrac (RIP) · #7 09-06-11, 06:09

Here's some info from US Military Tracked Vehicles. They only made 36 of them so finding another one might be difficult. It says the tracks are made of belting so could be reproduced.

cletrac (RIP) · #8 09-06-11, 07:01

Here's another one off the net.

gordon · #9 09-06-11, 09:32

I have all that lot on file, and a shot of the prototype at Camp Hale, albeit in the background.

I'm hoping this exposure will reveal at least one more survivor, and thanks for your efforts.

Gordon

Hans Mulder · #10 09-06-11, 19:44

Looks to be a fun project, but man is it ugly...

On the upside, tracks will probably be easy to manufacture.

gordon · #11 10-06-11, 10:57

I don't anticipate ever having trouble finding it in a car park though.

Tracks should be a lot less trouble than say, Weasel or M7 tracks.

Gordon

Hans Mulder · #12 10-06-11, 18:46

In fact, you may be able to make or have made some rubber conveyor belt track that is vastly superior to what was available 70 yrs ago, which will fix one of the main issues with this type of machine.

gordon · #13 11-06-11, 14:17

I got an ORD-8 Parts List copy in from Portrayal Press this morning which has answered some questions.

Carburettor is non-original - it should have the standard T214 Carter carb

The electric oil pressure sender is original, apparently it was matched to an oil pressure gauge from a Sherman.

Red paint finish is original too - apparently they were designated for use by the Army Air Forces for arctic search along air routes so fluorescent red enamel was put on the cabs.

Many of the other parts are standard T214 Dodge, but some were specific to the T214 WC55 like the radiator ( thicker core maybe ?) and other listed parts range from the Pacific Dragon Wagon down to the M3 Scout Car and M2 Halftrack

cletrac (RIP) · #14 11-06-11, 14:23

Gordon, one site I came across said that the US Forest Service was involved in the Snow Tractor's development.

Lynn Eades · #15 11-06-11, 23:09

Hi. As you would know the WC55 was only built in 42. What would be special about their radiator? Why would they be thicker. Mine looks like a std radiator. Did they have their own part number?
May be with your duel fuel tanks, the plan was to run one out first, and then switch over to the one with the guage? It makes no sense to run both at once( it was frowned on in carriers)

Richard Coutts-Smith · #16 11-06-11, 23:48

The Humber One Ton has a similar Fuel Tank set up. Only the drivers side has a gauge, and even more of a surprise, the change over tap is on top of the tank, ie outside the cab.
From personal experience, running off both tanks in off-road conditions can lead to all fuel being in one tank, and sucking air out of the other.
Most interesting vehicle Gordon, am enjoying your updates.
Rich.

gordon · #17 12-06-11, 11:10

Well I'm thinking that the raditor in a WC55 would be working hard lugging all that metal around, so they may have used a slightly thicker core for extra heat dissipation?

I can't think of any other reason why they would specify the radiator code from a WC55 ( G-121 ) and not just an ordinary 3/4 ton ( G-502 )

I know the forest Service had something to do with the earlier Sno-Motors and that may well have run into the Snow Cruiser and Snow Tractor too.

Ah well, more findings as and when.
------------------------------

Late

I think I've identified the radiator issue.

The radiator core is the same as the standard WC 3/4 ton, but the radiator cap isn't that is the specific WC55 part. The cap part number doesn't match the ordinary 3/4 ton for the system with or without the overflow tank, so all I can think is different pressure rating maybe.

gordon · #18 02-01-12, 18:44

I now have images of four surviving T-36 units on the updated page;

http://www.gwim2.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/t36.htm

Gordon

gordon · #19 25-02-12, 20:06

I had three jobs to do today and struggled the get the time to fit them all in.

First was cutting out and cleaning up the small areas of aluminium roof edge that had rotted out and filled with handfuls of filler. I did the entire front edge above the screen last week, now it was time for the six smaller areas on the side and rear, all six were pretty much the same;

Before;

After;

While I was cutting out the edge above the screen, I noted that the centre pillars and been impacted with something and pushed back, so next job was to rig up a bar and jack those out again - quite tricky as they had been hit in more than one area and ended up a bit Z-shaped;

During:

After;

When that lot was done I had to finish cutting off the rear panel, which had rusted through in several areas. This also involved cutting back the extreme lower corners under the doors as those had been bodged ( read Bubba'd ) with tin and filler too;

After;

I noticed that there was a small rivetted steel plate centred just below the rear window, with no apparent function. I'd guess this was where a trailer socket would have been put in if they had decided that it needed one.

gordon · #20 15-07-12, 13:24

Cab and drivers compartment are now off, so it is time to start repairing the pieces as I need to make up one load of parts for blast and prime.

Fuel tank takeoff pipe with isolator. There's one tank in each track frame with conventional US big filler point. Takeoff point with isolator is at the lower inner corner of each tank, but only the tank in the right track frame has provision for a fuel guage sender.

Right hand cab door ( no point in using terms like ' passengers side ' as the T-36 drivers position is central ) Structurally fine, but a line of rot right across the sheetmetal joint with the lower frame section. There's a suggestion of similar damage on the angled section but it didn't look bad - at this point.

Cut out, ready for piecing in

Finshed edge, which will still need phosphating and undsersealing before being covered up for the next 68 years. Yes, I did have to rework the angled front section too, but only by cleaning and plating behind it so I could spot repair through.