British tank stowage item identification
 

Does anyone know what this item is that is seen hanging off a good number of British tanks in North Africa and Sicily?

Attachment 140957Attachment 140956

I’ve also seen it on some Crusaders, and it never seems to be rolled up more than in these two photos. I can’t work out what it is, or is for, let alone how it’s actually constructed. It seems to have two thin panels on one side and a larger, padded part on the side that’s always towards the tank?

Folding stretcher
 

Looks to me like a folding or ‘soft’ stretcher

I have seen one or two among AFV parts lots.

Said to be for removing injured crew members

Just my guess

Cheers

Phill

It looks like the canvas carrying case for the artillery plotting board with a couple extra large straps for securing it to the side of the hull.

Do you have any photos of one of those? I tried looking and can’t find any :(

The only photos I can find of such an item all show items like these:

Attachment 140973Attachment 140974

That doesn’t look like the item on the tanks to me, unfortunately.

I'm gonna throw in that it may be a sleeping bag - like a Mills Co "victory Kit"

That is proving difficult to find a picture of, because the combination "victory" and "kit" results in a ton of hits for model kits of HMS Victory while adding "sleeping bag" produces all kinds of modern ones :(

But I think a sleeping bag is unlikely. Somebody on Missing-Lynx suggested a British officer’s sleeping bag, and I don’t think it’s that because the shapes don’t match. Plus, it seems an odd place to stow a sleeping bag, right where it will catch as much dust as it possibly can.

Intriguing question. Looking at photos it seems to be approx the same width as a large pack?

I'd say the folding stretcher is a lead to research further.

Attachment 140976

I keep thinking it’s a thing to carry other things. None of the ones you see in photos are ever rolled up all the way, they all hang in a curve with the padded (?) side towards the vehicle. That makes me think it’s meant for something to be strapped between the panels — but what? And why would it need that thick panel on the side against the tank if it’s just a carrier for, say, a rolled-up tent? Not to mention that I haven’t so far found a photo of what seems to be this item with something being carried in it.

A folding stretcher does seem plausible, but I for the life of me can’t figure out how to research one of those in such a way that I actually find out about British Second World War ones.

Jakko.

You mention you have seen this item on North African and Sicily photos.

Are they present at all on D-Day photos or any from the NW Europe Campaign?

If not, perhaps this item was specific to the armoured operations in desert conditions and was phased out. What comes to mind is some form of canvas crew shelter. If no tent poles can be seen on any of the photos, perhaps some form of lean to that was simply slung along a side of the tank to provide crew shelter/shade. One thing my Mum used to tell me from her time in the NAAFI in North Africa was that it 'got bloody cold' at night in the desert, quickly. The temperature would drop from the low 100's to 60 or 70 F, which does not seem that much but shocks ones body never the less and it is not uncommon to see troops at night in the desert wearing Great Coats, full Battle dress and even leather jerkins.

The item in the photos may not be padded at all, just a large bit of canvas work folded up.

Just a thought.


David

I don’t recall seeing it in photos of Normandy or beyond, or even Italy except Sicily, so it looks to me like a desert-only item, yes. But it’s unlikely to be a tent or shelter or similar, because first of all it’s very small even if the thick back folds open/out, and second, a good number of of tanks in the desert carried a rolled-up tarp along one side of the hull to use as a shelter — including some of those that also have this unknown item on them.

I suspect that I’ll just have to make something that looks like what I see in the photos (as the reason I’m asking about this thing is to put it on a 1:35 scale model).

Could only have been used in the desert as it would have been torn off in the first 30 seconds anywhere there were bushes and trees.

Just looked at hundreds of tank photos and the only ones I can find are related to landing operations.

The kit looks awkward and large enough plus only temporarily attached to be an inflatable life raft in case the landing ship sank Remember the tank crew could not wear lifejackets as were issued to most other personnel

I realize now that the pictures were enlarged on just the item in question. I see that the item is about the same size as a large pack.

Also, they always seem to be hanging from the Sunshield rails (the ones for the lorry disguise), which were not present on tanks elsewhere except those that had served in North Africa, too :) For all I know the item was on a lot more tanks but stowed somewhere else, where it wasn’t obvious.

In addition to the Shermans and Crusaders in the middle of the desert, you mean? :) The first photo I posted is of a Sherman around the time of El Alamein, the crew would hardly need a life vest there, I think. Also, just one life vest per tank seems a little … under-equipped? if that’s what it is — which I doubt.


Ah, yes, sorry — I had put a zoom tool over the item in question to show it better. Maybe I should have made that clearer. Here it is at normal size on Churchill as it came ashore in Sicily:

Attachment 140998

Jakko

I was suggesting they were an inflatable raft capable of saving half a dozen people not a life vest.

The desert photos could be 100 metres from the beach after the North Africa landings or even Sicily

Certainly non operational photos at the start, Everything is in top order and clean. I would not wonder if they were lined up to load on barges in North Africa for the Sicily operation.

Once inflated it would be about this size.

I’m not convinced, sorry :) The mystery item has straps on the outside that seem improbable for an inflatable raft or boat, and why would any tank in North Africa carry one even if it was? The tank merely being close to the beach would be an odd reason — would you pack a life raft every time you go to the beach? Even in an amphibious landing, carrying a life raft strapped to every tank doesn’t make that much sense, as it’d be much easier to rely on the landing craft’s.

Rescue litter
 

Took a while to find a similar (but much later US Army issue) stretcher/litter as my earlier post suggested the mystery item may be...

Cheers

Phill

Thanks, seeing that unfolded, I can picture how it might fold up to resemble the mystery item. Could well be that’s what it is, yes.

That's not it...
 

Having used this type of litter during exercises, I noted a key feature are the wooden/ bamboo slats in the backside. These are fitted so a patient can be strapped in the litter and be manhandled out of tight spaces, while keeping the patient straight.

Noteworthy is that these litters cannot be folded lengthwise, as it would defy their purpose. So this cannot be the same item as shown on Jakko's photos.

Good point, that rules that out again, too, then.

Not the same
 

We had one of the original WW2 British Commonwealth pattern examples in a Western Australian Military Museum where I volunteered.

It had NO such bamboo or any other rigid reinforcement and so to my thinking it is still a likely contender.

Cheers

Phill

I have done a bit more research on those mystery equipped tanks.

The photos above show the tanks of the British C Squadron, 3rd CLY (County of London Yeomanry) lining up and loading onto the landing barges for the invasion of Sicily. The exit shots are of them debarking in Sicily.

I have found several photos of tanks in the same regiment at the same time carrying no similar equipment.

Just a wild guess is the Squadron commander was a bit of an innovative chap and organised rafts (from the Air Force or Navy?) for his boys for the sea crossing and landing. Obviously whatever they are, they are very temporary as the dozens of photos of this unit in subsequent days after the landing display no such equipment.

There’s just one photo of a 3CLY Sherman in there, AFAIK, and that’s of the one exiting the Landing Ship, Tank on Sicily. That photo is why I’m wondering about the mystery item in the first place: for a model of that particular tank :)

Attachment 141066

When I began wondering what that thing is, I started noticing it in photos of tanks in North Africa as well, and that’s why I included a picture of one of the El Alamein Shermans: to show that it wasn’t a thing specific to the Sicily landings.

Here is a folding litter but it rolls into a sausage not bulky like the mystery item. It seems they did not come in until later in the war.

Looks like tis style was not until 1944 and rolled into a sausage not a loose bundle like the mystery item.

OK, that picture gives us a generic name for this type of stretcher: a “Neil Robertson stretcher”. But looking at those, they all have a lot of longitudinal slats, preventing them from folding like the mystery item, not to mention all the ones I came across have far more straps. I think this clearly shows it’s not one of those.