Wartime Tank Transport in England
 

Been reading a little further into the 'LMS at War' Book my cousin in England sent me and found this photo. Location unknown, but the caption reads: Tanks loaded on "Warwells" being marshalled by an Army shunter." Wouldn't that lot make a nice surplus find!

David

Any ideas what the truck in the background is?
Unusual shape to the windscreen bottom looks familiar, but I can't pin it down.
Rich.

Warwells
 

Some further pics here and also a dimensioned engineering drawing.

http://www.railalbum.co.uk/railway-w...-warwell-1.htm

The nearest I have got, though the shape of the bottom of the windscreen is not quite right, is the Thornycroft ZS/TC4, possibly the RAF generator version. I don't suppose they changed the windscreen shape during production (says he hopefully).

Could it be a shunting engine? I'm not into locomotives!

Chris

That's what I thought!.....but it has a mirror and steering wheel; both quite unusual on a loco :D
Somehow the truck made me think of something post-war...don't know why though.....

Alex

Hi Chris,
I spotted the steering wheel and mirror also so can rule out being a diesel shunter. If you zoom up the photo you will see what looks like the letters LMS on the door, so could be a railway lorry on an adjacent platform. As to make, I would give a wild guess of Thornycroft or Albion.

regards, Richard

Asking the truck ID question because it looks post war to me, which would date the photo.
I think the height in relation to the tank would preclude it being a shunter of any description (apart from the steering wheel...), and would point to it being on a flatbed wagon on an adjacent set of tracks, which would mean it is a military vehicle in it's own right, if you follow my train of thought( sorry, it just came out).
Thorneycroft or AEC was my first guess, as it appears to be quite a large vehicle but could not match that windscreen bottom. Such a distinctive telltale, yet I have to admit to failure.
Fortunately I may not be on my own...
Rich

The truck is almost certainly a mid 1930s Dennis 40/45 (or Ace) - the double set of horizontal louvres being quite distinctive.

Thanks Alan, had discounted the louvers as being something in between the tank and the truck, not the look I had imagined at all.
Hi-jacking of post resolved, and my thanks to David for such an interesting post, it appears that there was a lapse in the amount of red tape back in the day, tanks too high, build new wagons .... Job Done.
I do wonder what would have been the solution if the tanks had been too wide.
Rich.

Ah, of course. Now here is a link to photo of a Dennis Ace moving artwork to storage during the War, another photo of same truck has LMS on the door, same as in the railway photo.
http://pics.imcdb.org/0is338/masterp...orary.7820.jpg

Here is the other photo, not sharp, but sure it is LMS on it.http://www.imcdb.org/i360582.jpg

You guys with Eagle Eyes are good! :salute:

I was having trouble not realizing the armour clearly visible were M10's and not the standard Sherman. :doh:


David

Thanks Alan; I'm glad both Richard C-S and I were wrong! It's strange how a small Dennis lorry can look that big! (and modern :D)
Here are two Flickr pictures, to confirm Richards comment on the LMS lettering.

source: http://flickrhivemind.net/Tags/denni...ed/Interesting


https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7001/...5d8cf2bd_b.jpg

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7168/...5487124d_b.jpg

Ask zzee Germans. They had a set of extra (narrow) transport tracks for the Tiger I in order to prepare it for rail transport...along with removing the fenders and the outer wheels. (the Tiger I in Saumur is on the narrow tracks)

Modern Leopard tanks have thick side armor with hinges. These can be moved out of the way to allow them to be transported by rail, without damaging trains stations along the route.

Pleased that the solution has been found (though the Thorny I suggested has very similar louvres in the bonnet sides).

If the tanks are too wide, they do not travel by rail! The small British rail gauge (not the track gauge) bedevilled our tank design for many years. Eventually the designers had to ignore it, though most of the newer tanks were able to travel on contonental railways. Even those M10s are overhanging the warwells.

Chris