Need part numbers for C15A brakes
 

There comes a time in every CMP owners life to do the truck's brakes. Mine has arrived and to no surprise my C15 has C15A brakes. I spent the better part of the afternoon explaining what I needed to pimply-faced kids who's only mechanical experience is installing large resonators on Japanese compact cars. To avoid endless trips to the supply house, does anyone have the part numbers for the wheel cylinders, shoes, and master cylinder? I don't think re-sleeving the wheel cylinders is an option as the first one I pulled is cracked. As you can see from the pic there are some numbers stamped in the cylinder, 3 and below it: S231. Mean anything? I'll get to the passenger side tomorrow to assess it's condition. Thanks, Derek.

If you find an auto parts place that caters to farmers it's easier since the brakes are the same as some of the old one and two tons.

Derek,

Tell me what parts you need and I will give you the numbers. Might be easier if I just scan the pages out of the parts book and send them to your email address - I don't know how to get scanned stuff small enough for MLU to take it.

Lang

Master cylinder, Front and rear wheel cylinders, brake shoes, brake return springs. The seal for the outer bearing in the brake hub appears intact...there hasn't been any gear lube leaking into the brake drum, but if you have a parts number for that, I'll try to dig one up. Also I need a new locking washer for the "Jesus" nut that holds the drum onto the spindle. I can probably find suitable springs from modern equivalents, but if you have a parts number for those also, by all means email me at:

sapper740@grandecom.net


Any help greatly appreciated, Derek.

Master cylinder, try to save your old one so it can be sleeved. The bottom mount style used on C15A is rare, particularly in the required 1.25" bore. When the 1" bore ones show up on e-bay they are usually described as 1936 Chevrolet.
Wheel cylinders, backing plates, etc should be Ford parts, so consider Mac's or other Ford parts suppliers. Bob Carriere had luck taking one of his wheel cylinders into a local heavy truck repair shop and having them compare it to their catalogues, the shop sells Wagner hoses etc so the cylinders might have been Wagner too?
Same logic for brake shoes. They can be relined if the underlying parts are solid. LWD parts lists NOS shoes, or Mac's sells likely looking shoes (but I haven't checked parts #s). Check the C15A parts book, take the Ford style numbers and enter them on Mac's site, I've seen some parts show up on this method.

Particular parts for particular owners....
 

Will need to follow up from home for specifics.

1. Grant is right..... save that master cylinder and get it resleeved..... you might want to check Hemmings for a resto shop near you. In Canada Stuart in Stoney Creek charegs about $200 for a S.S. job.

Wheel cylinders are Wagner with different numbers for front and rear..... I have the numbers at home will flash it on tonite. They are $40 each and were used well into the late 50s in industrial applications...i.e. fork lifts, etc.

I would strongly recommend you take the time to change all your axle seals..... why do the job twice......even if they do not leak...now.... they will. If the are original.... probaby leather..... give them a few weeks with fresh lub and some good hot operating temperature and start mopping up leaks. Besides they are not expensive.

By the way in most instances, forget the original part numbers form the 40s parts book. Most modern search engines and comparaison charts will go that far back. A good professional industrial bearing shop will measure the ID, OD thickness and search for various suppliers. Ottawa is a not a "commercial/production" town but I found a shop called Industrial Solutions and they provide/search bearing and seals according to dimensions.

The big 5 or 6 inch oil seals in the front brake drums..... I was quoted up to $60 each..... I walked in, he measured and came back with one off the shelf and apologized for having only one but 36 hours later the second one arrived..... and only 19.95 to boot.

Rear axle seals... inner.... that has a skirt that fits inside the sheet metal cup of the axle..... available from Mac Auto Ford repro shop in Niagara for about $25...... claimed to fit a 1 1/2 to 3 ton Ford rear axle. They only had one.... my guy in Ottawa found one in California $24 incl. shipping..... but when I got it it was old stock with a leather seal which had to be soaked in engine oil. If you can do it... stay away from NOS with leather..... the new neoprene are much better.

If you work on the tranny and T case..... if your shaft rubbing surfaces are pittedgrooved worn..... DO consider using a speedy sleeve..... a very thin SS sleev that is gently pressed on.....hot/cold contrast will help. Again they are purchased by size min. to max. BUT they are expensive.... on a T case a bearing and races is about $45.00..... seal maybe $12.... the Speedy Sleeve will set you back $40 + -....... machining the shaft and rebuilding to nos size would be much more expensive.

To date I have replaced everything on a C15a....WITH.. new available stock items........the exception being the infamous flat bearing in the front axle on top and bottom of the egg cup...commonly referred to as king pin bearings...... ## 928... made by New Departure...... no new equivalent exists. Remaining NOS stock World Wide less than 100 at last count and priced at $200 +++ each .....with four needed. We strongly suspect they that they are also used on Cadilac LaSalle front King pin circa 1935-37.

Brake shoes....... clean up what you have.... if not damaged or cracked... probably script stamped "FORD"...... have new linings installed rivited or glue bonded..... have your brake drums cleaned up on a lathe and have the shoes arced to fit exactly the new curve of the drums.... about $250 for the four shoes...... $35 per drum to turn lightly and bring your old bearing for the set up on the lathe.

E brake drum lining about $125........

if you replace or clean up and repack bearings...... repacking bearing can be made easier if you use one of the large syringe needles they sell that fits into the grease gun fitting..... it allows you to insert grease deep into the guts of a bearing much better and more economical that by hand or using the bearing cones regualrly sold in Ato parts houses.

Now you only need to do one thing for us on the Forum...... post lots of pictures of your before and after successes or boo boo!!!!!

BooBee

We are in the process of making up a bracket to replace the master cylinder with the same 1.25 bore and the side mounts. This cylinder is still available from Wagner. I will post our progress.
Barry

Attachment 19792

This original cylinder mounting bracket is desert tan. We have looked at it ten ways to Sunday in every light. Did they paint any HUP's for the desert?

Attachment 19793

Interesting and original development.....
 

..... nice creative thinking Barry.

Are you thinking of fabricating a new bracket from scratch or modifying the existing CMP component....???

On the color...sand color ... anything is possible....... various colours of available prepainted parts on the assembly line 60 years ago..... field repairs...... or good old Ontario road dust cooked on for 60 years.

Knowing the differences/anomalies between a regular cab 13 and the irregular HUP...... are you sure the master cyl. bracket is exactly the same as the HUP or are you doing just a "one of"...... having worked on Rob's HUP there are sgnificant differences to the hardware attched to the frame due to the different frame dimensions.

Keep us posted via pictures of your prototype...... as the original CMP bottom mounted MBC are as rare as fresh dinosaur poop!!!!

BooB

cmp master cylinder
 

would you like me to find one or two to send over your way to help you blokes out
never had a problem finding them here :D
Max

Hold that thought Max, it appears a source of brake parts has been found. After traipsing around all the regular auto parts stores, I tracked down an old boy in Denton, Texas who restores vintage vehicles and who told me he knows of a source of vintage brake parts. (He was doing brakes of a '40s vintage DeSoto as we were talking). He directed me to the owner of the NAPA store who promptly brought up a picture of my wheel cylinders on his computer. A company in Ohio rebuilds them and has 32 listed as still available at the factory. I'll post the parts number once they arrive and I verify that they are the exact ones needed. Further, he knows of a business in Dallas that relines brake shoes, so they will going out on Monday. I'll keep everyone up-to-date as the parts start rolling in. Derek.

But this is Boobie we're talking to...
 

...when he first learned to drive, the way one stopped one's [auto]mobile was to stick one's feet out through the floor and drag them on the ground. To accelerate one began to run in place until said [auto]mobile began to move again.

He's really not much father ahead than that, so don't worry too much if you can't find what he thinks he "needs"... :teach:

...when he first learned to drive, the way one stopped one's [auto]mobile was to stick one's feet out through the floor and drag them on the ground. To accelerate one began to run in place until said [auto]mobile began to move again.

It sounds like he went to the Fred Flintstone driving school.

Re: brake shoe & linings
 

Hi Bob,

Maybe nice for Canadian "LwD" customers to make a CMP "Brake Shop" by Barry "Churcher's Automotiv" in Whitby. More Canadian brake parts plus other parts, here below:

http://www.lwdparts.com/partscanada?...y=parcan&id=a&

Dirk

Excellent idea...... a satellite store.
 

Are you thinking of setting up a Canadian Branch of LWD......?

Barry will not get much work done as we will all drop in for a visit and chat.... the poor fella will not get any work done.

But seriously..... is it not time to set up a list of most asked for sought after parts and do a bulk shipment to Canada....... the parts would love coming home close to Oshawa.

I have a list of things I woudl like to get from the Easter Bunny......

Starting with two sets of ALL the perishable parts of the Chevrolet brake booster.....maybe 3 or 4 sets if Walde and Phil Waterman are interested.

....and if that does not work how about organizing a bulk shipments of pre sold pre paid parts to be shipped bulk like it was done a few years ago...?

I'll be up all night making my list.....

...... and we still have to get together for a beer whenever you are on this side of the Ocean.

Bob

Satelite store.......
 

This year making plans to send a container (with inside a treasure for ?) to Canada. Room enough left for special "heavy" parts but also for small parcels etc. Shipping time: after the "War and Peace" show in Beltring.

Dirk

Hey Bob, any chance you have a part number on the front axle seals? There is no part number visible on the one side...on the other it says "INDUSTRIA ARGENTINA" and "0 5 0 2". They are both neoprene and appear to be in good condition. I'm not going to pull them unless I have a new one to go back in and a check around here has come up empty for those seals. Thanks, Derek.

Yes sir......
 

....got numbers and brand at home....... also got part numbers for Mac's seals.etc......

will get back to you from home......

Bob C.

Muchly appreciated! Derek.

Relined shoes are back
 

Ain't dey beyootiful! See what a 128 bucks can get you these days...dinner out with the wife or a pair of relined brake shoes. It's a no-brainer! Derek.

Brake p/ns
 

If you poke around here you will find they have a number of brake items under the original part numbers:

http://www.chevsofthe40s.com

This place has correct items, but uses their own numbering system:

http://www.americanclassic.com

Just a matter of $$

Front seals.....
 

Hi Derek

Hope you have noticed that Geoff has reviced an old parts listing form a few years ago....... from experience most of the numbers are good as is or they will get you referrenced to modern numbers. The wheel cyl. numbers are correct and literaly off the shelf items.....

I have kept an old oil seal....large 5 incher from an old front axle.... It is a National and has a number... will dig it out and post the number.... and will need to call my seal guy to see what number/brand he sold me the last time... I believe he maintains computer files of everything I bought from him....

For brake parts go to a specialized large truck shop.... you will have better luck than a NAPA or others like them.

The Marmlberg shop in Ottawa has/had an old 6 inch thick manual that contained all the casting mark records and black outline silhouettes of brake cylinders and master cyl. I have no idea where they got it from but if I bring in old parts they can match the outline and get to a part number/brand. My friends Dad use to work there...... after his valve job at 65... they kept him on 3 days a week just to source old parts...... but like many he has since passed on.

Boob

....still diggin' out of the snow...... still have to do the equipment shed roof before it collapses...

Thanks Bob, your post directed me quite nicely to that thread. I'm pleased to see that the parts store has ordered the correct front wheel cylinders (part no. 4571) so they should fit when they get here. They're charging me $65.24 each for rebuilt wheel cylinders which is a lot less than having them resleeved with s.s. I was going to wait until I had the front brakes done before turning the truck around and doing the back to check the rear wheel cylinders but I'm confident those numbers are correct so I can go ahead and order them. Unfortunately, I have a bunch of pricks to deal with from the Home Owner's Association so I have to be tactical when working on my truck.

Question for everyone; is there any advantage for someone like me who spends extended periods of time working out of town (up to 3 months) to use a DOT 5 brake fluid (silicone) which apparently disperses moisture better so it doesn't collect in the wheel cylinders over the standard DOT 3 or DOT 4? Or would completely changing the brake fluid every couple of years solve that problem?

Thanks, Derek.

Silicone Brake Fluid
 

Hello Everyone,

There seems to be many debates on this topic. As some people are aware of my vehicles. Not only do I have a CMP, I also collect and restore antique cars. I overhauled the brake system on my 1958 Ford Fairlane 500 Skyliner in 1986 and used Silicone Brake Fluid. I am in Regina, Sask where the weather only allows me to drive my car 6 months of the year. So far, I have put 75,000 miles on the car and have not had any problems of any sort. The key to using Silicone Brake fluid is that the system has to be free of any old brake fluid. If you are reusing any brake lines they need to be flushed out. If you are re-using cylinders or parts of, then these parts have to be cleaned as well including the cups.

I trust that this information will be helpful in answering questions about storage and reliability.

Regards,
Dale

Thanks Dale, you've convinced me that silicone is the way to go and now is the time with everything apart making flushing the lines easy. I assume simply blowing them out with compressed air should suffice? Derek.

Blow job may not be sufficient.....
 

Hi Derek

According to everything I have read on many Forum..... the only way to use "silly-cone" is to start with a full fresh brand new system..... that implies brake line steel and rubber, cylinders... all five of them.... Dale is correct the time to try it out is when you are starting from the ground up.

How good will it be...... depends who you read ro talk to.... some say it is not worth the trouble and cost and that on the long run it si cheaper to use the standard Dot 3 or 5......

Note that a lot of modern vehicle..... Ford Lincoln and not Ford trucks have the silicone stuff......

I say with caution that I have read.... a lot.... but little experience.... I have done my system with army surplus silicone and so far ti seems to work fine........ but the truck has not yet been driven...... my practical experience is verty limited.......

Again from what I have read if you plan on using a mixture of old parts you need to flush the lines with alcohol..... methyl or ethyl I am not sure.... but not the drinking kind anyways...... you might want to do a search on the web...

Since you are doing a major brake job you might want to consider changing the lines....... that will be you weakest link........ all depends on the condition of the truck system..... the suckers can rust from the inside from water in the low bend areas. If you do not change the line you might want consider staying with regular Dot 3 / 4.

In all the years I have played with Dodge M37 and 43 we always had no brakes left after they sat for 3 or 4 Winter months..... we never changed the fluid..... we bleed until they worked again........ which probably amounted to the same thing.

Good luck and keep us posted of your decision/results.

Snow job......
 

Just to follow up on my previous shovelling ditty......

Grant and I.... well Grant anyways as I supervised..... removed about 4 + feet of hard pack snow from the roof of the equipment shed late this afternoon...... we expect some mild weather and rain..... if it soaked into the roof snow it might have collapsed..... 3 ladies were killed in a paper palnt yesterday near MOntreal when the roof caved in.

Anyways I don't know how many tons of snow Grant removed but before his deed was done I had to crawl on my knees to get inside the shed..... after he removed the snow the roof sprang back up and I could walk inside standing up!!!!!

BooBee

Flushing of Lines, etc
 

Hello Everyone,

After reading Bob's reply, I forgot to mention something. My car was not a ground up restoration, therefore the brake lines were left in the framework. I used Methyl Hydrate to flush the lines and then blew it out with compressed air.

On my F15a, I have only completed my front brakes and at the master cylinder, plugged the Y block for the rear and filled the system with the Silicone Brake Fluid. I will be completing the rear this summer.

Regards,
Dale

Wheel cylinders arrived today
 

My wheel cylinders finally arrived today and I was able to assemble the front brakes. I'm going to put doing the rears on hold for a couple of weeks as there are a couple of events I'm going to need my truck...that and not arousing any more suspicion from the Homeowner's Association. Derek.

CMP parts numbers
 

I have original civilon parts numbers for all the Ford cars and trucks from 1928 to 1942 .These are in two original Ford parts numbers manuals .The trouble is that you have to figure out whitch number to use as there is alot of them . There is some illistrations on each subject . EM me if you want any numbers or pictures George