Please Does Anyone Remember Hayhill Army Camp?
 

Hi Everyone,

Im hoping that someone out there knows the aproximate whereabouts of Hayhill Army Camp in Slough in Buckinghamshire in England ? as my Dad who was with the Royal Canadian Army was stationed there in WW2.
In 1946 this cheeky Canadian Soldier met a very pretty English girl
who was in the ATS, anyway thats how eventually :rolleyes: I came to be :)

Hope someone may be able to help? as Im sure the info is there somewhere? .

Tired Eyes and getting so frustrated :confused:
Hilary

Re: Please Does Anyone Remember Hayhill Army Camp?
 

Hi Hilary;

Welcome to the forum.

Question: Do you know with whom your Father served?

Example: - Royal Canadian Army Service Corps, or Royal Canadian Army Medical Corps, or Royal Canadian Army Pay Corps.

Do you have a picture of him in uniform that you could post here.

Cheers :)

P.S. - beware of 'Little Miss Yappy' (aka Carman (Karman) Sinclair) - we don't call her 'Little Miss Yappy' for nothing :D

and this is for you Yappy :p

Re: Re: Please Does Anyone Remember Hayhill Army Camp?
 

That's okay Mark-OOOOOOOOoooooOOOOOOOO
I know WHERE yah live.

Hilary ... WELCOME to the forum. It's great to have another woman in here actually posting.

....don't believe ANYTHING he (MARK) tells you ...unless it's about military history! Everything else? Is a crock.:rolleyes: He's off his geritol I guess.:D

:smoker: Take care, Carman

Re: Re: Please Does Anyone Remember Hayhill Army Camp?
 

Re: Please Does Anyone Remember Hayhill Army Camp
 

Hilary;

I received your private message, from what you said, your Father served with the Corps of Royal Canadian Engineers (R.C.E.). 'Sapper' is the term used for an Engineer Private. I'll see what I can dig up.

Cheers :)

Hayhill Army Camp
 

Hilary asked me whether I knew of the Hayhill Army Camp. I mention it here as this is of direct interest in this forum.

Basically, I assume Hayhill must have been the official name for the Canadian Army camp near the Slough Trading Estate established sometime in 1940. As you all know the second Canadian Mechanization Dept was set up in the former Citroen Cars Limited works on the Slough Trading Estate and some RCAOC [Detachment 2] personnel were assigned to the CMD to assemble Canadian Fords and then Jeeps from autumn 1940 onwards.
http://clubs.hemmings.com/clubsites/chevytalk/camp.jpg
Note the location of the camp to the CMD in the top right corner. There was also a British RAOC depot/vehicle park that had hundreds of vehicles stored therein in 1940-41.

Re: Service Records
 

Hilary;

In regards to obtaining your Father's Service Record, go here:
http://www.genealogy.gc.ca/10/100907_e.html.

Cheers :)

Re: R.C.E.
 

Hilary;

Reference: Hayhill Camp

I think your Father may have served with one of the Construction Companies, R.C.E., who during the war were redesignated Canadian Artizan Works Companies, under C.M.H.Q. and later H.Q. R.C.E. Canadian Constructional Engineers (under command and control of Canadian Military Headquarters (C.M.H.Q.)).

Under command of C.M.H.Q. as of 1 July 1942:

5th Canadian Construction Company, R.C.E.
6th Canadian Construction Company, R.C.E.
7th Canadian Construction Company, R.C.E.


H.Q. R.C.E. Canadian Constructional Engineers:
(with under command as of 31 July 1943)

5th Canadian Construction Company, R.C.E.
6th Canadian Construction Company, R.C.E.
7th Canadian Construction Company, R.C.E.
1st Canadian Base Park, R.C.E.

H.Q. R.C.E. Canadian Constructional Engineers:
(with under command as of 8 May 1945)

5th Canadian Artizan Works Company, R.C.E.
6th Canadian Artizan Works Company, R.C.E.
7th Canadian Artizan Works Company, R.C.E.
1st Canadian Base Park, R.C.E.

Cheers :)

War Diary
 

The War Diary for the Canadian Mechanization Depot (Serial 3408) spanning the period of June 1941 to June 1946 can be found at the National Archives RG 24, Volumes 16172-16174. This would have the location of the Canadians.
In a document I ws reading yetserday it was revealed that Lt-Gen McNaughton was informed that , at the current rate of assembly, it would take 9 years for the crated vehicles of Canadian origin to be assembled. He ordered that an additional shift be added and that work proceed over the weekends. It was further 'suggested' that the Windsor Tank regiment be used to assemble as most of their personnel came from the automotive industry. This tasking upset the soldiers of the Windsors as they were being paid Army wages to do autoworkers jobs.

CMD Diaries?????? at last found??
 

Clive, I have been pursuing the elusive War Diaries of the 1 and 2 Detachment RCOC for some time now with no success! They are referred to in TO THE THUNDERER HIS ARMS but I have got nowhere despite repeated and consistent research and enquiries.

Can you confirm that Volumes 16172-16174 relate to the 1 and 2 Det War Diaries? The online web catalogie implies that they relate to 'Central Mechanization Depot', i.e. in Ottawa. Were they incorrectly indexed?

There are possibly two files that might also relate:

RG24 , National Defence , Series C-3 , Volume 16133
Serial : 3302 , Access code: 90
File Title: No. 1 Ordnance Depot, Royal Canadian Ordnance Corps (formerly No. 1 Detachment, Royal Canadian Ordnance Corps)
Outside Dates: 1939/08-1941/09

RG24 , National Defence , Series C-3 , Volume 16135
Serial : 3303 , Access code: 90
File Title: No. 2 Ordnance Depot, Royal Canadian Ordnance Corps (formerly No. 2 Detachment, Royal Canadian Ordnance Corps)
Outside Dates: 1939/12-1942/03

although I am not sure that the latter is the one I had copied and sent me...just a pile of personnel requirements etc.


Basically, 1 Detachment RCOC was based in Aldershot from around March-April 1940 and handled the very first assembly of Canadian vehicles including staff cars that must have included some Ford Fordor sedans. 2 Detachment was formed later and was allocated 1 Det staff in due course, being formed up at Citroen Cars Limited in late August 1940. By then the original Canadian Mechanization Depot was at Southampton [to be precise the lease was signed February 1940 and assembly started at Southampton in April with Ford F15s. , but the civilians in charge from CANMEC, i.e. Canadian Mechanization HQ at CANMILTRY, Canadian Military HQ in Cockspur Street, London [the former Sun Life of Canada building behind Canada House in Trafalgar Square, London] were also based at Ford, Dagenham.

After the CMD was blitzed 30 November-1 December 1940 assembly was switched of Fords to the new CMD, in several bays of the main Citroen factory on the Slough Trading Estate....see Dr Gregg's book for the photo of the first with # CMD 15001 etc. This was run by 2 Det personnel as by then 1 Det personnel had been transferred to 2 Det although that is an oversimpilification of what actually transpired....as for example some of 1 Det as was moved to Camp Bordon, the new RCOC depot in Hampshire. GM vehicle assembly was switched elsewhere...another story! However I have photos of Ford boxes including Jeeps stored outside the new CMD in Slough and there are clearly military personnel walkimg around, including women. However I am told by a Mr Smith who worked at Citroens just before the war and then subsequently under Canadian supervision that there were civilians employed. The sheer numbers of vehicles would have required military and civilian personnel. 450 civilians were employed with 1 Det it seems at Aldershot, it seems. Officially 1 and 2 Dets RCOC were based at Aldershot but I suppose with the move into Bordon that Camp became the actual HQ for all activities.

May I ask if you could assist further in this project because we might at last write some new history, namely about the numbers of vehicles assembled in Aldershot, Southampton and then Slough, and also when 2 Det started any assembly work in Slough?

I must just add that Southampton always had staff shortages and the RCOC personnel were supplemented by civilians. However capacity was never exploited to the maximum because there was no night shift. Why? Well research showed that the civilians wanted to get out of town by 16.00 each day because of the worry about bombings. There was no way on earth it seems that civilians could have been even forced to work when the evenings drew in because of the increasing air raid alerts and darkness = bombing!

Unit Serial
 

First things first. let's find out what the Unit Serial was. Fortunately Service Publications published this list (400+ pages) in a limited edition (30 copies) several years ago. Once we have the Serial we can find the War Diary. If there was no 'Unit' created then there will be no War Diary and we will have to check against the Windsor Regt. , the RCOC, etc... in much the way that I am finding stuff on the Kangaroos (down Hanno, down.)
Unfortunately there will be a delay as I am in the middle of doing some other research. The problem is that I have a 9-5 job that interferes with my hobby. As much as I would like to give it up my wife and kids have taken a liking to a warm shelter and at least 2 meals a day...

Re: No.'s 1 and 2 Detachments, R.C.O.C.
 

David;

No.'s 1 and 2 Ordnance Depot, R.C.O.C. were formerly No.'s 1 and 2 Ordnance Depot Companies, not No's 1 or 2 Detachments, R.C.O.C. -

Serial 3302 - No. 1 Ordnance Depot Company, R.C.O.C. Authorized: GO 384/42 - Effective 1 May 42, Converted & Redesignated: GO 373/43 - Effective 1 Jul 43.
Converted & Redesignated: Serial No. 3302 - No. 1 Ordnance Depot - GO 373/43 - Effective 1 Jul 43.

Serial 3302 - No. 1 Ordnance Depot
Authorized: GO 373/43 - Effective 1 Jul 43, Redesignated: GO 396/43 - Effective 15 Jul 43.
Redesignated: Serial No. 3302 - No. 1 Ordnance Depot, R.C.O.C. - GO 396/43 - Effective 15 Jul 43

Serial 3302 - No. 1 Ordnance Depot, R.C.O.C.
Authorized: GO 396/43 - Effective 15 Jul 43

Serial 3303 - No. 2 Ordnance Depot Company, R.C.O.C.
Authorized: GO 384/42 - Effective 1 May 42, Converted & Redesignated: GO 451/43 - Effective 1 Sep 43.
Converted & Redesignated: Serial No. 3303 - No. 2 Ordnance Depot, R.C.O.C. - GO 451/43 - Effective 1 Sep 43

Serial 3303 - No. 2 Ordnance Depot, R.C.O.C.
Authorized: GO 451/43 - Effective 1 Sep 43


In regards to No.'s 1 and 2 Detachments, R.C.O.C.:

Serial 657 - No. 1 (Overseas) Detachment, R.C.O.C.
Authorized: GO 183/41 - Effective 1 Jul 40

Serial 658 - No. 2 (Overseas) Detachment, R.C.O.C.
Authorized: GO 183/41 - Effective 1 Jul 40, Disbanded: GO 438/43 - Effective 13 Mar 42

David/Clive, Hope this helps :)

Confusion?
 

Mark, where I queried was when the index referred to 'Detachment'. There is a file that I obtained a copy of relating to 2 Overseas Detachment but it was a waste of effort and money. That said it was almost unique in that respect out of all the files that I have obtained copies of.

Despite the official dates the TO THE THUNDERER HIS ARMS states that 1 Detachment was formed in December 1939, in London, i.e. CMHQ, but moved to Aldershot in February 1940. It then moved to Bordon in August 1940. However 2 Detachment was formed in May 1940 in London and Aldershot. It may be that the paperwork caught up with what had been established in the hurried days from December 1939 to Dunkirk.

Clive, TTTHA refers to letters in the 2 Det War Diary. I have really tried my best to find out from the RCOC Museum, the Archives and the Ministry where the actual Diaries are which the book refers to.

Re: Confusion
 

Hi David;

An earlier thread regarding No.'s 1 and 2 Detachments, R.C.O.C.:

No.'s 1 and 2 Detachments, R.C.O.C.

Cheers :)

Other possibilities;

Reference: RG24 , National Defence , Series C-3 , Volume 16133
Serial : 3302 , Access code: 90
File Title: No. 1 Ordnance Depot, Royal Canadian Ordnance Corps (formerly No. 1 Detachment, Royal Canadian Ordnance Corps)
Outside Dates: 1939/08-1941/09

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Reference: RG24 , National Defence , Series C-3 , Volume 16135
Serial : 3303 , Access code: 90
File Title: No. 2 Ordnance Depot, Royal Canadian Ordnance Corps (formerly No. 2 Detachment, Royal Canadian Ordnance Corps)
Outside Dates: 1939/12-1942/03

Re: Other possibilities
 

Clive;

Ottawa has the file titlles wrong - Neither No. 1 Ordnance Depot or No. 2 Ordnance Depot, R.C.O.C. were formerly No. 1 or No. 2 Detachment, R.C.O.C.

My post from earlier:

No.'s 1 and 2 Ordnance Depot, R.C.O.C. were formerly No.'s 1 and 2 Ordnance Depot Companies, not No's 1 or 2 Detachments, R.C.O.C. -
**************************************************
Serial 3302 - No. 1 Ordnance Depot Company, R.C.O.C. Authorized: GO 384/42 - Effective 1 May 42, Converted & Redesignated: GO 373/43 - Effective 1 Jul 43.
Converted & Redesignated: Serial No. 3302 - No. 1 Ordnance Depot - GO 373/43 - Effective 1 Jul 43.
**************************************************
Serial 3302 - No. 1 Ordnance Depot
Authorized: GO 373/43 - Effective 1 Jul 43, Redesignated: GO 396/43 - Effective 15 Jul 43.
Redesignated: Serial No. 3302 - No. 1 Ordnance Depot, R.C.O.C. - GO 396/43 - Effective 15 Jul 43
**************************************************
Serial 3302 - No. 1 Ordnance Depot, R.C.O.C.
Authorized: GO 396/43 - Effective 15 Jul 43
**************************************************
Serial 3303 - No. 2 Ordnance Depot Company, R.C.O.C.
Authorized: GO 384/42 - Effective 1 May 42, Converted & Redesignated: GO 451/43 - Effective 1 Sep 43.
Converted & Redesignated: Serial No. 3303 - No. 2 Ordnance Depot, R.C.O.C. - GO 451/43 - Effective 1 Sep 43
**************************************************
Serial 3303 - No. 2 Ordnance Depot, R.C.O.C.
Authorized: GO 451/43 - Effective 1 Sep 43
**************************************************
In regards to No.'s 1 and 2 Detachments, R.C.O.C.:

Serial 657 - No. 1 (Overseas) Detachment, R.C.O.C.
Authorized: GO 183/41 - Effective 1 Jul 40
**************************************************
Serial 658 - No. 2 (Overseas) Detachment, R.C.O.C.
Authorized: GO 183/41 - Effective 1 Jul 40, Disbanded: GO 438/43 - Effective 13 Mar 42


Cheers
:)

Mark,

It will be interesting to see what the covers of the War Diaries say. Normally the Archives staff only copy over what they see. Curiouser and curiouser.....

Clive

Re: Covers
 

and curiouser and curiouser and curiouser and curiouser.....

Cheers :)

Serials
 

So, what's inside Serials 657 and 658? Curiouser.........six times.

Re: Serials
 

David;

This should be inside:

Serial 657 - No. 1 (Overseas) Detachment, R.C.O.C.
Serial 658 - No. 2 (Overseas) Detachment, R.C.O.C.

Even a lot more curious now.........

Cheers :)

eh? whaddidyah say?
 

They must be speaking Greek:confused: :confused: :confused:

Too early in my life for this kinda talk:p

Re: eh? whaddidyah say?
 

Go back to sleep, we'll call you when its time to get up...........:p and by that time we'll be speaking Turkish, just to confuse you more......:p :D

Files
 

I shall be put out of my misery if and when the War Diaries for 1 and 2 Overseas Detachments are found..they exist evidently but where?

Re: Files
 

David/Clive;

I should have posted this earlier, anyways, reference confusion over who's who in the zoo and who's under which cover:

Serial 3302 - No. 1 Ordnance Depot Company, R.C.O.C. (later Serial 3302 - No. 1 Ordnance Depot, R.C.O.C.) and Serial 3303 - No. 2 Ordnance Depot Company, R.C.O.C. (later Serial 3303 - No. 2 Ordnance Depot, R.C.O.C.), were both organized (GO 384/42) here in Canada on a Home War Establishment (No. 1 Ordnance Depot Company, R.C.O.C. - Cdn. V/1940/538C/1 and for No. 2 Ordnance Depot Company, R.C.O.C. - Cdn. V/1940/538D/1 - both Effective 1st May, 1942) which meant that both units served within the borders of Canada for the duration of the War.

Serial 657 - No. 1 (Overseas) Detachment, R.C.O.C. and Serial 658 - No. 2 (Overseas) Detachment, R.C.O.C., were both organized (GO 183/41) in the United Kingdom on a War Establishment (No. 1 (Overseas) Detachment, R.C.O.C. - Cdn. IV/1940/127C/1 and for No. 2 (Overseas) Detachment, R.C.O.C. - Cdn. IV/1940/127D/1 - both Effective 1st July, 1940)

Don't forget, that both No. 1 and No. 2 (Overseas) Detachments, R.C.O.C., had orignially started out has 'ad hoc' formations at Aldershot and Bordon, respectively, before being 'officially' organized has established units. The War Diaries for these 'ad hoc' units and detachments, should be found within Serial 657 - (for) No. 1 (Overseas) Detachment, R.C.O.C. and it's predecessor 'ad hoc' unit at Aldershot and Serial 658 - (for) No. 2 (Overseas) Detachment, R.C.O.C. and it's predecessor 'ad hoc' unit at Bordon.

In regards to Serial 657 - No. 1 (Overseas) Detachment, R.C.O.C., it was disbanded under authority of GO 111/46 - Effective 20th January, 1946.

Anyways, I hope this clears up the confusion over what should be found where and who was who, before and after.

Cheers :)

Re: Confusion over files
 

Clive/David;

After my last post, my brain kicked in again, I've figured out what the two files quoted above are referring to when it states: (formerly No. 1 Detachment, Royal Canadian Ordnance Corps) and (formerly No. 2 Detachment, Royal Canadian Ordnance Corps).

Before the outbreak of the Second World War, there was, spread, across Canada, Permanent Active Militia (or Permanent Force) Detachments, R.C.O.C. There were twelve of these Detachments, spread from coast to coast (No.1 Detachment, R.C.O.C.; London, Ontario, thru to No. 13 Detachment, R.C.O.C.; Calgary, Alberta) there being no No. 8 Detachment. Basicly, there was one detachment per Military District (No.'s 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9, 10, 11, 12 and 13)

On 1st September, 1939, these twelve Detachments, were placed on Active Service within Canada, under Serial No. 3 (Authority: GO 135/39 - Effective 1 Sep 39). Being pre-war Permanent Force units and since their employment was to be within the borders of Canada, they operated on their pre-war establishments.

In May, 1942, these twelve Detachments, R.C.O.C., were absorbed into the 'Ordnance Depot Companies' (later redesignated 'Ordnance Depots') that where organized on a Home War Establishment (GO 384/42) here in Canada, again, basicly one per Military District/Command (No.'s 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9, 10, 11, 12, and 13).

What I believe, will be found in the above mentioned files, are the War Diaries for:

In Serial 3302 - No. 1 Ordnance Depot, R.C.O.C. and it's predecessors - No. 1 Ordnance Depot Company, R.C.O.C. and No. 1 Detachment, R.C.O.C. (which was placed on Active Service on 1 Sep 39 under Serial No. 3)

and

In Serial 3303 - No. 2 Ordnance Depot, R.C.O.C. and it's predecessors - No. 2 Ordnance Depot Company, R.C.O.C. and No. 2 Detachment, R.C.O.C. (which was placed on Active Service on 1 Sep 39 under Serial No. 3).

Serial 3 - No. 1 Detachment, R.C.O.C. and Serial 657 - No. 1 (Overseas) Detachment, R.C.O.C. - are two entirely different and separate units.

and

Serial 3 - No. 2 Detachment, R.C.O.C. and Serial 658 - No. 2 (Overseas) Detachment, R.C.O.C. - are two entirely different and separate units.

This should finally clear up the confusion...I hope.....

Cheers :)

Re: War Diaries
 

David/Clive;

I should have added to my last post: "What you are looking for are":

The War Diaries for:

Serial 657 - No. 1 (Overseas) Detachment, R.C.O.C. (possible dates Jul 40 to Jan 46)

and

Serial 658 - No. 2 (Overseas) Detachment, R.C.O.C. (possible dates Jul 40 to Mar 42)

respectively.

Cheers :)

All my Wife's family come from the Slough/Maidenhead area, and none of the 'oldies' can remember an army camp called 'Hayhill'

Re: War Diary
 

Hi Guys;

Found this, its from the website of the Windsor Regiment: http://www.windsorregt.ca/history.html, who back than were Serial 1424 - 30th Reconnaissance Regiment (The Essex Regiment), C.A.C.

After arrival in the U.K., July, 1943:

"The CO was called to the office of General McNaughton where he was informed that the Regiment had a special assignment. There was a large amount of unassembled military vehicles that needed to be put together. So as luck would have it, the men of the Essex Regiment (Tank), many of whom joined the army to escape the auto plants, found themselves as overseas auto workers. They would be paid $1.30 a day while their friends on the assemble lines in Windsor were getting $5.00 to $6.00 a day for the same work. They became Number 1 Canadian Armoured Corp Company Canadian Equipment Assembly Unit. On April 6, 1944, the active unit was disbanded and the personnel became reinforcements for other regiments in the European Theater."

Cheers :)

Re: Re: eh? whaddidyah say?
 

Well ... thank goodness for the wealth of documentation in any language ... wish that had a book out for understanding "Military Talk for Idiots" ;)

Time for my:smoker: :smoker: :smoker:

Re: Re: Re: eh? whaddidyah say?
 

Go back to sleep...................:p and when you awake, maybe, just maybe, your 'wittle peanut' will understand it all, or it could all be Chinese by then.......:eek: .........;)