Did Canadian army in ETO use 4x2 CMPs?
 

Maurice,

I rember we discussed this recently. I am sure David H., our resident Historian, can come up with good solid info on contracts etc.

All I know is that the Canadian units which went over to France in 1940 were equipped with brand new Ford F15 4x2 (and remotely possibly Chevrolet???) trucks - see CMPs first used in action: June 1940, France.

Groet,
Hanno

Here's an F15 4x2 in Antwerp. Although it was captured on film by a Canadian unit, it could of course also be a British truck. At least this could help to get the discussion on this subject going. . .

. . . as this picture shows the same type of CMP in May 1945. This definitely is a Canadian Army truck as only (a) Canadian unit(s) liberated my home town.

Attachment 35125

Thanks
 

:salute:

That's made my day!

Simple answers
 

This is in fact a very interesting and useful query. The answers are:

1. Ford F.15 and Chevrolet C.15 trucks were the first off the assembly lines at Southampton May 1940. 4x4 15-cwt versions followed some months later.
2. C.8 and presumably F.8 production commenced shortly after the 4x2 15-cwt trucks.
3. C.8 production at Oshawa, and I am guessing F.8 production at Windsor, terminated in 'Late 1941', in favour of 4x4 variants.
4. There is no evidence yet as to when 4x2 15-cwt production ended but I am sure that Dr Gregg suggested that they were 'obsolete' in Canadian service by 1944. I can find no record in my database of Canadian 4x2 trucks in 1943 Model Year.
5. The last known 4x2 truck that I know of was a C.15 assembled on November 16th 1943. That was to British order, S/M 6050 which was it seems the last GM order for 4x2 trucks.

However, I am not sure whether the F.602S and F.602L 4x2 lorries were used by the Canadians....they were of course 4x2 CMPs!

Hanno, this business of studying old trucks has a different emotional impact when you put it that way. Which regiment(s)?

did candian army use 4x2 CMPs
 

I have an original Department of National Defences instruction book. Fifth Edition , printed July 1941 by General Motors of Canada for the, 8CWT 4x2,15CWT4x2, 15CWT 4x4,30CWT4x4,3TON4x4 ,FA GUN Tractor 4x4.Would this mean they usde the 8CWT 4x2 CMPs inthe war ?

C.8
 

Both C.8 and F.8 initially to my knowledge.

There is of course a photo of a F[?].15 in Dr Gregg's book when it mentions that they were obsolete.

When the 5th Cdn Armoured Division was deployed to Italy in late 1943, it was equipped with old British wheeled vehicles. Besides being in very poor condition, many of the vehicles were 4x2s. It is most likely that some of them found their way to NWE when 1st Cdn Corps moved there in March 1945.

Ah yes, that one - see quote from CMPs first used in action: June 1940, France below. While its census number CZ 4204396 denotes overseas service, this picture was most likely taken in the UK (possibly at Borden, Hampshire). But according to the vehicle data book which was reproduced in Gregg's book, by 1944 4x2 trucks were no longer used in operatonal commands, but limited numbers were used in the UK as general purpose load carrier for supplies and stores by CRU or other base units.

Hanno

Obvious missing factor here.
 

Reading through the scheduling of the 4 x 2 and 4 x 4 changeover above, it would seem to me that they concentrated on 4 x 4 CMPs from 1942 on because of the huge quantities of 4x2 Dodge trucks, D15 and D60, that they had available from that point. It would be relatively easy to concentrate production of 4 x 4s as Chev and Ford, and leave Dodge to churn out all the 4 x 2's.

In fact Canadian Dodge production pretty much went the other way, starting with the 4 x 4 D8A, and swapping over to 4 x 2 D15 and D60 types at around the same time the Chev and Ford production changed.

Here are two more pictures of a Ford F15 4x2 with a British cargo body:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/21640011@N07/4360903714

https://www.flickr.com/photos/21640011@N07/4360186567/

Granted, this truck seems to be in use with the British Army and not the Canadian Army.

These Cab 13's with British 15-cwt body could well be chassis/cabs delivered for completion as Polsten AA trucks, which were no longer needed when the Allies gained air superiority, and converted into GS trucks.

Attachment 72549 Attachment 72550

At least a 4x2 on 39 sec.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0VumA283eA


Greetings

Hendrik

F15 in Alkmaar 1945. However...is it British or Canadian?

The second picture of the Jeep and Fordson were taken on the same day and on the same location. Fordson and jeep are clearly marked Canadian.....so F15 as well???


Source: http://www.regionaalarchiefalkmaar.n...beeldcollectie

Yep, looks like another one with British 15-cwt body.

Nice find!

Attachment 72884

To my knowledge, it were Canadian units which took over control of the Western part of Holland after the German surrender. So, I'd say the F15 was in Canadian use.

Another great find, you are "good busy" :D

4 x 2 trucks
 

Hanno,

How do you tell a 4 x2 from a 4 x 4 from the outside ?

Robert

A 4x2 sits lower, and has an I-beam front axle and different front hubs.

The I-beam front axle can be seen in the last photo.

Hello, i have a C15 from 42 civilian dash horizontal switches. Made britich contact, but i have a CZ and britisch number on the doar

Thanks Jakob,

It sounds like a C15 built under a British contract, but used by the Canadian Army.

Hanno

Caption:
"D-DAY.nChevrolet CMP C60,CMP No.13-cabbed, 3-Ton Covered Fixedside-bodied 4x4 General Service Freight Lorry, at Pont L'Eveque, circa 10 miles from Deauville, D-Day plus 4:-"

Attachment 73883

Source: http://www.trucknetuk.com/phpBB/view...?f=35&t=114300

Sorry richt truck on the picture is a C15a 4x4 15cwt version.....

Indeed the caption "C60" is wrong, but it is a 4x2 C15....take a close look at the front axle:

http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/at...3&d=1433101271

Sorry Jakob, but it is a 4x2, look close at the front axle at the left front wheel, but I think it is British.

Hendrik

Yes hanno jou are right. it's a 4x2 Model C15 15cwt like mine.

F15 Anti-Tank Tractor
 

On p. 246 of Les Freaty's British Military Trucks of WW2 I found this interesting picture of a Ford CMP F15 4x2 truck fitted with a British-built cargo body.

My hypothesis is that these trucks were originally assembled as Truck, 15-cwt, 4x2, AA, Mk II, more often referred to as a 15-cwt Polsten AA truck (or similar).
When due to Allied air superiority this type of AA truck was not needed anymore, they were re-bodied with GS type bodies commonly found on British 15-cwt trucks.

Attachment 76261

Another surviving F15, this one was sold last year at the Honychurch auction in the UK and now resides in the Netherlands, awaiting a lengthy rebuild:

http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/at...8&d=1442825598

Here's one of these F15's with British wooden body as found on British 15-cwt trucks like the Bedford MW, Morris-Commercial, etc.

This one is in use with the Norwegian Brigade in Germany, 1947-1953. Picture source: https://digitaltmuseum.no/0110127322...klandsbrigaden

Attachment 89933 Attachment 121568

Perhaps a strange question, but where there any 4x2 's delivered to the Canadian Army?? 4x2 is a typical British configuration, like the Bedford MW and the Fordson WOT 2.

Groeten Hendrik