Did Canadian army in ETO use 4x2 CMPs?
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I rember we discussed this recently. I am sure David H., our resident Historian, can come up with good solid info on contracts etc. All I know is that the Canadian units which went over to France in 1940 were equipped with brand new Ford F15 4x2 (and remotely possibly Chevrolet???) trucks - see CMPs first used in action: June 1940, France. Groet, Hanno |
Here's an F15 4x2 in Antwerp. Although it was captured on film by a Canadian unit, it could of course also be a British truck. At least this could help to get the discussion on this subject going. . .
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Attachment 35125 |
Thanks
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That's made my day! |
Simple answers
This is in fact a very interesting and useful query. The answers are:
1. Ford F.15 and Chevrolet C.15 trucks were the first off the assembly lines at Southampton May 1940. 4x4 15-cwt versions followed some months later. 2. C.8 and presumably F.8 production commenced shortly after the 4x2 15-cwt trucks. 3. C.8 production at Oshawa, and I am guessing F.8 production at Windsor, terminated in 'Late 1941', in favour of 4x4 variants. 4. There is no evidence yet as to when 4x2 15-cwt production ended but I am sure that Dr Gregg suggested that they were 'obsolete' in Canadian service by 1944. I can find no record in my database of Canadian 4x2 trucks in 1943 Model Year. 5. The last known 4x2 truck that I know of was a C.15 assembled on November 16th 1943. That was to British order, S/M 6050 which was it seems the last GM order for 4x2 trucks. However, I am not sure whether the F.602S and F.602L 4x2 lorries were used by the Canadians....they were of course 4x2 CMPs! |
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did candian army use 4x2 CMPs
I have an original Department of National Defences instruction book. Fifth Edition , printed July 1941 by General Motors of Canada for the, 8CWT 4x2,15CWT4x2, 15CWT 4x4,30CWT4x4,3TON4x4 ,FA GUN Tractor 4x4.Would this mean they usde the 8CWT 4x2 CMPs inthe war ?
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C.8
Both C.8 and F.8 initially to my knowledge.
There is of course a photo of a F[?].15 in Dr Gregg's book when it mentions that they were obsolete. |
When the 5th Cdn Armoured Division was deployed to Italy in late 1943, it was equipped with old British wheeled vehicles. Besides being in very poor condition, many of the vehicles were 4x2s. It is most likely that some of them found their way to NWE when 1st Cdn Corps moved there in March 1945.
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Obvious missing factor here.
Reading through the scheduling of the 4 x 2 and 4 x 4 changeover above, it would seem to me that they concentrated on 4 x 4 CMPs from 1942 on because of the huge quantities of 4x2 Dodge trucks, D15 and D60, that they had available from that point. It would be relatively easy to concentrate production of 4 x 4s as Chev and Ford, and leave Dodge to churn out all the 4 x 2's.
In fact Canadian Dodge production pretty much went the other way, starting with the 4 x 4 D8A, and swapping over to 4 x 2 D15 and D60 types at around the same time the Chev and Ford production changed. |
Here are two more pictures of a Ford F15 4x2 with a British cargo body:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/21640011@N07/4360903714 https://www.flickr.com/photos/21640011@N07/4360186567/ |
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These Cab 13's with British 15-cwt body could well be chassis/cabs delivered for completion as Polsten AA trucks, which were no longer needed when the Allies gained air superiority, and converted into GS trucks. Attachment 72549 Attachment 72550 |
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F15 in Alkmaar 1945. However...is it British or Canadian?
The second picture of the Jeep and Fordson were taken on the same day and on the same location. Fordson and jeep are clearly marked Canadian.....so F15 as well??? Source: http://www.regionaalarchiefalkmaar.n...beeldcollectie |
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Nice find! Attachment 72884 |
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Another great find, you are "good busy" :D |
4 x 2 trucks
Hanno,
How do you tell a 4 x2 from a 4 x 4 from the outside ? Robert |
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The I-beam front axle can be seen in the last photo. |
Hello, i have a C15 from 42 civilian dash horizontal switches. Made britich contact, but i have a CZ and britisch number on the doar
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It sounds like a C15 built under a British contract, but used by the Canadian Army. Hanno |
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"D-DAY.nChevrolet CMP C60,CMP No.13-cabbed, 3-Ton Covered Fixedside-bodied 4x4 General Service Freight Lorry, at Pont L'Eveque, circa 10 miles from Deauville, D-Day plus 4:-" Attachment 73883 Source: http://www.trucknetuk.com/phpBB/view...?f=35&t=114300 |
Sorry richt truck on the picture is a C15a 4x4 15cwt version.....
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http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/at...3&d=1433101271 |
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Hendrik |
Yes hanno jou are right. it's a 4x2 Model C15 15cwt like mine.
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F15 Anti-Tank Tractor
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On p. 246 of Les Freaty's British Military Trucks of WW2 I found this interesting picture of a Ford CMP F15 4x2 truck fitted with a British-built cargo body.
My hypothesis is that these trucks were originally assembled as Truck, 15-cwt, 4x2, AA, Mk II, more often referred to as a 15-cwt Polsten AA truck (or similar). When due to Allied air superiority this type of AA truck was not needed anymore, they were re-bodied with GS type bodies commonly found on British 15-cwt trucks. Attachment 76261 |
Another surviving F15, this one was sold last year at the Honychurch auction in the UK and now resides in the Netherlands, awaiting a lengthy rebuild:
http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/at...8&d=1442825598 |
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This one is in use with the Norwegian Brigade in Germany, 1947-1953. Picture source: https://digitaltmuseum.no/0110127322...klandsbrigaden Attachment 89933 Attachment 121568 |
Perhaps a strange question, but where there any 4x2 's delivered to the Canadian Army?? 4x2 is a typical British configuration, like the Bedford MW and the Fordson WOT 2.
Groeten Hendrik |
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