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Les Freathy 10-04-07 20:47

military motorcycles
 
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A new thread dedicated to military motocycles of all types, those who have been observing the FC 3 ton thread will have noted the discussions from Rich Paine and his love of these machines and i know there a a number of you who share his enthusiasm. In fairness i think we should leave the Harly Davidson machines to the recent dedicated thread. iexpect that some of you will be able to contribute to the items that appear i know that some of my captions will need looking at or expanding hopefully Rich can contrbute some of his items
Here go'es

1. All i have on these two snapshots is they are RAF and in the far east, both are the same machine and i think Ariel W/NG but correct me if i am wrong

Les Freathy 10-04-07 20:49

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NO2 i believe this pre war machine is a BSA but over to you guys again, it serves with 3rd Royal Tank Regiment and is on excercise on Salisbury plain

Les Freathy 10-04-07 20:50

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Far east again details on the back state Triumph 350

Les Freathy 10-04-07 20:51

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Norton with i believe a side car built by Swallow

Les Freathy 10-04-07 20:53

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Brave man, is it Ariel

Les Freathy 10-04-07 20:54

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Final for the moment a shot i took at a rally about 20 years ago is it a????

Richard Farrant 10-04-07 21:40

Quote:

Originally posted by Les Freathy
Final for the moment a shot i took at a rally about 20 years ago is it a????
Les,

It is a Royal Enfield WD/CO by the look of it.

Rich Payne 10-04-07 22:23

I'm pretty sure that the bike in the first post is an M20. Certainly not an Ariel primary chaincase.

The pre-war shot shows one of the War Office BSA V-Twins, many of which accompanied the BEF to France, never to return.

The machine with the chair is a sidecar wheel drive 633cc Big 4 Norton. Les, have you got confirmation that the sidecars were made by Swallow ? I have heard it mentioned but never seen proof.

The bike with the Thompson mounted is from a series of pictures taken IIRC at Swanage in 1941. A unit of the Grenadier Guards received 1938 Civilian Model 18 Nortons (500cc ohv) More propaganda than anything.

The picture below is the front cover from "Motorcycling" from April 18th 1940 - 67 years ago next week and shows 4th Battalion Royal Northumberland Fusiliers training in France. The censor has obliterated the "TT" of 50th Div.

http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/5...1940gv8.th.jpg

barriefield-brian 11-04-07 04:27

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This is my grandfather on a bike. BSA ? He was in the 8th Recce. Brian

Rich Payne 11-04-07 22:50

Quote:

Originally posted by barriefield-brian
This is my grandfather on a bike. BSA ? He was in the 8th Recce. Brian
I wish that I had a family photo like that Brian !

Another Norton WD16H. The type most usually seen in Canadian Service in the UK. Are you able to read the census number on the front number plate ? Machine looks 1941 ish but the number would pin it down.

Rich

barriefield-brian 12-04-07 03:41

Hi Rich Taken in England sometime between 1941 and d-day. I enlarged the pic but cant make out the number. C43??528. I also have pics of carriers,scout cars etc. but this is the only one with a bike except for the long group pic. Brian

Les Freathy 12-04-07 21:55

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A gathering of desert racers, a couple of Matchless in the line up

Les Freathy 12-04-07 21:57

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And a nice line up of wartime AA patrol men and bikes which are ????

Rich Payne 12-04-07 21:58

Hello Brian,

I would think earlier rather than later. The bike still has the early style Manilla paper mask to comply with blackout regs and doesn't seem to have the panniers which were fitted after early 1942.

Any chance of a look at the group shot ?

Rich.

Rich Payne 12-04-07 22:01

Quote:

Originally posted by Les Freathy
And a nice line up of wartime AA patrol men and bikes which are ????
The front machine is a BSA (could be the 600cc M21) and the rest have an Ariel look to them from what I can see of the valanced front mudguard and cylinder head shape.

Richard Farrant 12-04-07 22:28

Quote:

Originally posted by Les Freathy
And a nice line up of wartime AA patrol men and bikes which are ????
Les,

They are BSA M20, or M21, the latter being 600cc and I am sure AA use M21 on their outfits.

barriefield-brian 13-04-07 03:31

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Hi Rich
Not sure how well this pic will show. One squadron of the 8th Recce taken in 1941. Brian

Noel Burgess 15-04-07 17:27

Solidier - photo 1
 
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The image, posted by Les, of the motorcycle with a Thompson mounted fired up a few grey cells and i found a box containing 1950s copies of "Soldier - The British Army Magazine"which had a photo article about Motor Cycle use after dunkink - including two more of the tommy gun unts

This captioned "The rider looks down the barrel of his tomy gun. Not the easiest weapon to operate accurately at speed"

Noel Burgess 15-04-07 17:35

Soldier - photo 2
 
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Sory about all the white space above - hope this works better

1st Batt Grenadier Guards at Swanage 1941

Noel Burgess 15-04-07 18:27

Soldier - picture 3
 
This one was captioned

"Somewhere in Eastern Comand, August 1941. Part of Britain's motor-cycle army.

Noel Burgess 15-04-07 18:36

Oops - picture 3
 
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Sory - here it is

Les Freathy 08-06-07 17:39

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You guys can identify the bike, its a display of equipment carried by military police and taken at 73 coy military police training centre Doncastr in 1944
Les

Rich Payne 08-06-07 21:54

Not a lot to go on there. The tank shape and filler cap look BSA but there is something odd about the rear mudguard.

I wonder if it was from the same series as this shot.

http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/5...20mpnh8.th.jpg

james007 09-06-07 03:52

bren gun
 
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Heres a nice one fron the national archives of Motorcycles and side car's with mounted bren gun's. any one know the type of Bike it is?

James

Godwin Hampton 09-06-07 07:43

Again Norton 633cc Big Four outfits. The front fork going THROUGH the mudguard, rather than straddling it, is a giveaway!

Would love to see details of the BREN attachment bracket....

Rich Payne 09-06-07 11:20

There seem to have been several types of Bren mount used. Does this picture help ? With its civilian Reg. number and tax disc, this must be a pre-war shot, presumably experimental.

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/3...l604wv9.th.jpg

Norton used this posed shot in the AA role in their advertising.

http://img475.imageshack.us/img475/4...publfr7.th.jpg


This is another Big 4 with experimental armament :

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/5...3849fc9.th.jpg


A Getty Images Canadian shot. Unfortunately lacking detail just where it's needed.

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/6...ettybo4.th.jpg

Rich

Noel Burgess 09-06-07 12:13

Rich
It seems to me that the 3 bren mounts you posted are probably the same - at least only minor variations.
Do you know how long they were in use?
Would not have thought that the mortar(?) set up would have survived many fireings.
Great images, thanks
Noel

Rich Payne 09-06-07 22:31

Noel, You could well be correct about the mounts. I thought that I had seen other pictures with a lower mount but now suspect that they might simply have the bipod hooked over the hand rail.

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/7...mmerox3.th.jpg


This is a variation designed to hold off the umbrella-wielding hordes :)

http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/6859/abig4nk3.th.jpg

I'm not sure if Sidecars with mounted Brens were actually used apart from training (and propoganda purposes).

I haven't seen any photographic evidence of Outfits with the BEF in France being equipped with fitted Brens and most captioned pictures show Canadian units training in the UK in 1941 / 42. The Norton advert dates from April 1941 and carries Southern Command markings.

I wonder if any film exists of live firing with the mortar. Not the most stable platform, I'd have thought.

Rich

Godwin Hampton 09-06-07 23:00

Rich,

Fantastic pictures! The Norton Bren mounting reminds me of the Motley mounts, with counterbalancing springs at the rear helping to make the Bren as weightless as possible. Even the chair is particular to the mounting, with what could possibly be the first military use of a safety belt in a vehicle!

It seems that quite a few were produced, as the mounts seem to be all exactly the same, suggesting a production run rather than a one-off or a prototype.

Wayne Henderson 10-06-07 04:56

Norton 633
 
Hi guys,
Seen all these pics before except the umbrella holder.
The Mortar unit was designed to carry the ordanance to a position, not to fire from the chassis. A one off I think.
The bren guns were fitted to the inner side of the side car body for stowage and used when required. Remember this was Britains reply to the BMW and the effectiveness of fast mobile attack units.
The AA mounts were more about boosting morale in desperate times than shooting down Stukas.


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