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-   -   military bridging (http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/showthread.php?t=6617)

Richard Farrant 13-07-07 00:44

Quote:

Originally posted by Les Freathy
what is the load in the back of the Morris

Les,

The load looks like kapok bouyancy rafts (maybe not the correct term for them, though)

Les Freathy 14-07-07 00:54

Yes i was thinking along those lines Richard, i will be at the show on thursday
cheers
Les

Richard Farrant 14-07-07 01:25

Quote:

Originally posted by Les Freathy
, i will be at the show on thursday
cheers
Les

Les,

Might see you about then.

Les Freathy 23-07-07 12:57

1 Attachment(s)
another for the bridging thread
Les

David Potter 24-07-07 14:30

Quote:

Originally posted by Les Freathy
another for the bridging thread
Les

Hi Les,

Looks like you have the same FBE Mk III handbook (1941) as me! I have already posted loading diagrams (was it here or on David Hayward's Mystery WD truck thread?) Plate XII c & d.

Another interesting area in this handbook is the temporary loading diagrams (Plate XII a & b) and photos (Plate XVII & XVIII) using FBE Mk II lorries and trailers; have you ever seen any "in service" photographs that confirm this loading? I can scan and post these images if anyone is interested (same for FBE III loading diagrams).

David

David Potter 24-07-07 14:47

Quote:

Originally posted by Les Freathy
David P what is the load in the back of the Morris
cheers
Les

Hi Les,

Richard F quite accurately described the load as kapok rafts; here is a more complete description of kapok system.

David


The basic kapok bridge was an Infantry Assault Bridge but the equipment could be used for a variety of roles.

Infantry Assault Bridge
6'6" long kapok filled floats supported a wooden walkway.
Decking was 6'6" long and 1'10.5" wide
Each bay weighs 1cwt.

Attachment, Carrier Flotation, Kapok MkI & MkII
Kapok floats together with special fittings could also be used to float a carrier.
MkI designed for Universal Carrier MkI
MkII could be fitted to all carriers except the T16
8x brackets were clamped to the carrier, 2x front, rear and each side. THese carried kapok floats fastened by chains. 9x kapok floats were used; 3 vertical at the front, 2 vertical on each side and 2 horizontal at the rear.

Raft for 15cwt truck
It is possible to coonstruct a raft to carry light vehicles including 15cwt. These use kapok floats lashed together and trackways of walkway. Loading the raft is difficult and the lack of rigidity can be a problem.
27x floats are lashed together in three layers.
8x walkways are lashed over the floats to form two trackways.

David Potter 24-07-07 17:23

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally posted by Les Freathy
David P what is the load in the back of the Morris
cheers
Les

Hi Les,

This photo (V6555) is in same sequence.

Official caption:

"Testing MkII version of FBE Raft. The lorry is loaded with the latest version of the Kapok Raft equipment".

David

David Potter 24-07-07 17:54

1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally posted by Les Freathy
Still cant sort out that last problem so its kicked into touch. Now heres a interesting item, about 15 years ago i put this photo into a model mag to find out more details we all came to the conclusion that it was bridging but never resolved the full purpose of strapping complete large sections in this way. One it must have been rather out of balance whilst travelling, think of the roads in Europe at that time, for obvious reasons its better to go up rather than flat the width would have been totally restrictive and upwards as can be seen would foul bridges, trees, arches etc
comments welcome
Les

Les, Noel & any other interested parties!

I still think we are looking at SBG in one form or another. The section issue raised by Noel can be explained that these are tapered hornbeam sections (you can see that furthest section gets deeper towards front of trailer).

In defence of original idea that it was for AVRE SBG Assault Bridge are:
a) Lack of centre decking (as in MkII AVRE bridge)
b) Tow bar / A frame for Towed SBG Assault Bridge (although recent examination of drawings shows towing eye attached to bakseat!)

Latest theory!

Kastentrager-Gerat : German copy of SBG!

"In the mid 1930's the German Army copied the design of the SBG almost exactly, calling their bridge the Kastentrager-Gerat, literally the bow girder equipment. The K-Gerat used the same panel length as the SBG, but slightly ammended the bracing details. A 1943 article in the German magazine Military Engineer describes the bridge being used on the Russian front in conjunction with pontoons and goes on to say that 'the bridge has given good service and is similar to bridges used in enemy armies'. Its use prompted an instruction in a Royal Engineers Training Memorandum of the same year to the effect that, although the SBG MkIII was by then obsolete in the British Army, training with SBG should occasionally continue to enable units to utilize captured enemy equipment" (One More River to Cross, Col. JH Joiner)

Reasoning behind this is that the trailer looks more German than British! (Just waiting for someone to prove me wrong there!) Attached is a (poor) image of Engineer Vehicle 11 (Pf.11), Pontoon Wagon (D600) which has similar mudguards and belly locker.

OK so that is my tuppenceworth on this subject! Oh, still can't find ID for AoS 16, plate does look more British than German.... now if I could see AoS on Scammell in the background.........

All for now

David

Les Freathy 02-12-07 23:59

1 Attachment(s)
Interesting photo of a ferry on excercise inthe UK, note the power source for the ferry i presume the jeep has enough power to move the 28 ton tank plus the ferry. i am aware that small things can make even bigger ones move in water but this must have been slow
cheers
Les

Les Freathy 03-12-07 00:01

1 Attachment(s)
A shot of the Churchill bridge, any one care to identify the van, it looks French to me
Les

Les Freathy 05-03-08 15:24

1 Attachment(s)
Glad to see the threads have been moved from the old sites, so to continue the bridging heres a rare shot of British engineers operating two lifting dericks both being driven by the Chicago compressor of i would guess between 4 and500 CFM

Noel Burgess 03-05-08 22:54

I have already referred to http://cgsc.leavenworth.army.mil/car...entdm/home.htm twice today - this is just a quick post to say that the "Obsolete Manuals " section includes "Ponton Manual 1917"
Noel

Hanno Spoelstra 08-09-10 21:22

2 Attachment(s)
Surviving folding boat, pictures courtesy of Martin van de Poel

Spider 23-11-10 23:04

I have been viewing the developments of this thread for a while now as well as doing some of my own research. I have found an Italian site with quite a bit of information on folding boat equipment.
http://freeforumzone.leonardo.it/dis...px?idd=1554266

Alex Blair (RIP) 24-11-10 02:59

'37 Dodge 1 ton van..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Les Freathy (Post 88350)
A shot of the Churchill bridge, any one care to identify the van, it looks French to me
Les

Les

It looks like a '37 Dodge one ton van..
The wheels and that big chrome strip down the center of the grill give it away..
Here is a 1/2 ton civilian version.

http://www.autogallery.org.ru/k/d/37...ickup2_NAC.jpg
And another here

http://www.autogallery.org.ru/k/d/37...up_Carsnet.jpg

Check out the wheels and grill on this '36..

http://www.autogallery.org.ru/k/d/36...yl3spd_CCT.jpg

Aussie version here

http://www.autogallery.org.ru/k/da/3..._NormEllis.jpg

Noel Burgess 29-12-10 19:12

Class 50/60 Raft
 
In the January issue of "Military Machines International" Les Freathy produced a nice article on WW2 tailers - including one of the Class 50/60 raft trailer.

Here's some info from the Trux website: -

The class 5/60 raft was only used, in NW Europe, for the Rhine crossing.
The trailer was sopposed to be towed by a "Tractor 6 ton 4x4" but for the actual crossing they were towed by "Royal Artilery tractors from an AA unit"

Can anyone add to this information?

Noel

Noel Burgess 02-01-11 00:13

3 Attachment(s)
OK all the bridging nuts must still have a hoilday hangover - lets see if I can wake them up with these few shots of Polish forces training in Italy (Sikorsky Museum photos from Le March in Guerra site)
first is an FBE boat being "unfolded
Second an FBE Decked Raft with FBE lorry boarding so must be a class 9 raft
Third appears to be an assault boat raft - I didn't know these existed

Clive_Dakers 02-01-11 00:29

215 Fd Engr Coy 1940 on exercise
 
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s...t/scan0002.jpg
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s...t/scan0003.jpg
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s...t/scan0004.jpg
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s...t/scan0005.jpg
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s...t/scan0006.jpg
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s...t/scan0007.jpg
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s...t/scan0008.jpg
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s...t/scan0009.jpg
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s...t/scan0019.jpg
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s...t/scan0020.jpg

Clive_Dakers 02-01-11 00:32

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s...t/scan0021.jpg
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s...t/scan0022.jpg
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s...t/scan0023.jpg
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s...t/scan0024.jpg

Anthony Main 03-01-11 00:58

Nice pic's Clive,Location looks like the river thames near Dorcherster !

Richard Coutts-Smith 03-01-11 02:18

Magnificent photo's.
Not sure I would like to be on the end of that chainsaw though. I assume it is pnuematic?
Rich.

Keith Brooker 10-01-11 10:51

Raft in the Far East
 
1 Attachment(s)
Great photos Clive. original Photo from my collection. truck on raft far east.

Noel Burgess 11-01-11 00:30

really enjoyed those photos Clive, Can someone remind me what that bridging equipment was called?

Now for a link to some film of Bailey Bridge construction; the commentary is in Spanish or similar language but I think you willl agree that it's an interesting film: -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m45CXAaHw80

Noel

Noel Burgess 14-01-11 00:45

Class 50/60 Raft again
 
Back to the Class 50/60 raft - I have recently seen some pictures of these , on thier trailers, being towed up to the Rhine and launched by Churchill AVREs.
They are in Concord Publication's "British Tanks of WW2 (part 2) on pages 52 & 53. I won't post the pictures as mine are not good quality and are not, erm, entirely legally obtained.

Keith Orpin 14-01-11 23:56

Clive,
Those pictures you posted were taken about 3/4 miles away from where I live ! (Anthony is a similar distance the other way), albeit probably 70 years ago. Love the Blenhiem bomber passing overhead, which could have taken off from RAF Benson or RAF Harwell. The houses in the background are still there, might be worth a before and after picture.
Thanks once again
Keith

Clive_Dakers 15-01-11 01:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith Orpin (Post 141556)
Clive,
Those pictures you posted were taken about 3/4 miles away from where I live ! (Anthony is a similar distance the other way), albeit probably 70 years ago. Love the Blenhiem bomber passing overhead, which could have taken off from RAF Benson or RAF Harwell. The houses in the background are still there, might be worth a before and after picture.
Thanks once again
Keith

That one with the Blenhiem is my favorite. I bought these as a job lot on EBay. There are a few more but the missing ones are mainly camp scenes and portraits etc. Nice idea about the before and after pics, any chance? :p Its a bit out of my way, I'm in Carlisle.

Keith Orpin 25-01-11 14:21

Clive,
Wait until it warms up / dries up a bit, and I'll see what I can do
Regards
Keith

chrisgrove 02-03-11 00:28

Various
 
Hi guys

First time I have looked at this Sapper thread!

Post 129 actually shows the Class 50/60 Raft about which there has been some discussion.

The series of big pics above, including the Blenheim bomber, show the Mk V pontoon bridge equipment, with an interesting variety of Albion (?) bridging trucks crossing. And from way back, there certainly was an assault boat raft.

David Potter has asked about some unit AoS numbers. My references suggest he could be right about 1317 and 1318. Peter Hodges reports 1317 as being an RASC pontoon unit (and 1318 as merely RASC), but both, he says, displayed 21 Army Group signs with the Army bar below the AoS, rather than 30 Corps signs. None of my references give a number for Corps Bridging Companies. And 16 would appear to be a Corps Ammunition Company, as none of 79 Armd Div seem to have had that number. Not very helpful, I am afraid.

Great pics on this thread!

Chris

Les Freathy 01-04-11 21:24

2 Attachment(s)
Evening Guys
Long long time ago i said i would put up some pictures from the book Bridging Normandy to Berlin so with the forum now up and running again i supose now is the time to start the ball rolling
Two photos here of Bristol Bridge a class 40 Bailey over the river Meuse at Maeseyck. It was constructed by 8 corps troops in January 1945 working in terrible condidtions including flooding
cheers
Les

Les Freathy 01-04-11 21:32

1 Attachment(s)
Another class 40 baily bridge this one is Winston built over the River Orne at Caen built by the Canadian engineers


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