Red Cross Ambulances
 

http://clubs.hemmings.com/clubsites/.../ambulance.jpg

I have a major query! The above is a photo of several Chevrolet WA panel vans RUN by the Polish Red Cross, similar to the Czech Red Cross, circa 1941. Note that they have the Polish Forces WD Census Numbers and 'Polish Red Cross' in Polski and English. Now, as with Canadian, Czech and presumably US Red Cross ambulances were these vehicles military but operated by the Red Cross divisions or were they civilian but allocated military numbers? I have a printed photo of a 1941 Model YR Panel Van with civilian rego operated by the British American Ambulance Corps, and yet the lady driver is wearing uniform...FANY Corps?

Found this page about WW2 ambulances.
http://home.att.net/~dodgewc54/

here in Australia the Red Cross and Salvation armies had permission to use army unit and formation signs on the vehicles they used.

I can only assume that the vehicles, while probably purchased outside of Army purchases, were painted to match the units they were with.

AWM pics of salvation army personnel and their vehicles show them in military uniforms as well.

I have recently bought a read only CD of Australian Formation Signs and Vehicle Marking of the Australian Army 1917 to 1983, by Steve Taubert,
Comtrain Enterprises
20 Friarbird Drive
Narangba
Qld 4504
which contains a wealth of information on these type of markings for the Australian Army.
:)

I also noticed in the above photo of the chev ambulances that they are fitted with dual rear wheel hubs and yet are only on a single rear tyre.

Single rear wheels
 

Note that the panel van bodies are the single rear-wheel type, and yes I too noticed that they have the dual-rear wheel hubs! I am suspecting at this juncture that this was because they had heavy-duty rear axles. The only other thought is that these were diverted deliveries and that that's all they had in kits of parts!

I have information on a whole host of 1940 WA panel vans used also as Ambulances that were registered DGE .... with chassis assembled in Tarrytown in June and July 1940. DGE was Glasgow!!

Canadian Red Cross in UK
 

http://www.canadianwarbrides.com/vads1.html

It seems that the Salvation Army was also a VAD.

The British Red Cross Society supplied ambulances to the Army, some of which were driven by FANY members at Red Cross request. So, I suppose the military ambulances were supplied for the use of the military forces, and civilian ones such as French Red Cross, St John Ambulance, Hospitals, and also British Red Cross plus BRITISH AMERICAN AMBULANCE CORPS had civilian registrations. One report I read said that the FANYs were issued in Plymouth with some ambulances donated by the Rotary Club of Ontario.

Hello,

If I may add something... :)

This is neither ICRC-related nor Polish Red Cross vehicle. This is normal military ambulance only with Red Cross symbology according to all Hague/Geneva Conventions.

The badge I marked and described on the pic explains all. This badge was painted between December 1940 and December 1943 on the Polish military vehicles that belonged to the Scotland-based Polish 1st Corps.

http://img218.exs.cx/img218/8612/1stcorps3ml.jpg


Best regards

C. :)

POLSKI CZERWONY KRZYZ/Polish Red Cross
 

Hello my friend! Thank you for your advice. Since I posted the last note, 'Ostrycharz' [robert@ostrycharz.free-online.co.uk] advised:

then

We know that Red Cross drivers were used to drive ambulances with military census numbers, having been provided by e.g. Canadian donations. On the other hand very similar vehicles, 1941 Models, were used by the British-American Ambulance Society with Red Cross, FANY or ATS drivers, and carried civilian registrations.

I suspect that this photograph dates to sometime in 1941 and once again thank you for your advice.

David,

Yes, of course, you are right. Both types of markings and camouflage schemes were used on the Polish Armed Forces Chevrolet ambulances. One of them is classic military scheme with two-tone camouflage and simple red cross symbol as can be seen at your pic. The other one is smooth olive drab scheme with more civilian markings where the red cross symbol is encircled by two-language inscriptions: "Polski Czerwony Krzy¿" and "Polish Red Cross". If I am not mistaken this second scheme is more typical for the ambulances donated by various organizations. For example 10th Armoured Cavalry Brigade of the Polish 1st Armoured Division had such an ambulance founded by the Chicago-based Legion of Young Polish Women.

Best regards

C. :)

Actually...
 

..the photograph shows that these ambulances had "Polski Czerwony Krzy¿" and "Polish Red Cross" either side of the redc cross inthe white circle. I believe, but have not yet seen any photos, that the Czech Red Cross had similar vehicles. If I can scan it I shall post a photo from our local newspaper of an olive-drab 1941 Chevrolet panel van.

We know from registration records that large numbers of 1940-1941 Chevrolets were used as ambulances, and were used by all manner of organisations including St John's Ambulance, hospital authorities and hospitals. The National Archives reveals that so many vehicles were being donated from overseas as ambulances that the 'powers that be' suggested that the message be sent out that Britain had enough ambulances thank you...but we did not have enough trucks for military requirements! Then of course there were the YMCA. NAAFI, Church Army, Salvation Army, etc. vehicles some of which were donated from overseas.

Polish Chevrolets
 

I am always interested in details of Chevrolets assembled by Lilpop, Rau und Loewenstein in Warsaw. We know some trucks were used by the Polish Army in 1939, and an armoured one and a seized German Post Office van were used in the Uprising.

Re: Polish Chevrolets
 

OK, David, give me a week or two and I will look around to check how could I help you. Of course I am unable to promise you something for 100 percent because you certainly know how hard may be historic research. None the less last several years there were various materials published in Poland about the vehicles. I will check them as well as I will ask for consultation my friends -- historic journalists and publicists.

Best

C. :)

Re: Polish Chevrolets
 

Yes, you are right. In 1944 Warsaw Uprising period two the most famous Lilpop, Rau und Loewenstein-built Chevrolet 157 platform conversions are the "Kubuœ" armoured car (upper pic) and the van you mentioned (lower pic).

http://img223.exs.cx/img223/5843/kubus7uz.jpg

http://img223.exs.cx/img223/3145/ak7jz.jpg

There were three!
 

I forgot that there were in fact three Chevrolets!

1. 1937 Armoured Truck featured, assembled by Lilpop Rau u Loewenstein after the company had taken a licence to assemble Chevrolet, Buick, Opel.

2. 1939 Model Armoured Truck 'Kubus' featured.

3. 1939 Model ex-German Post Office van seized in the Uprising in 1944.
http://clubs.hemmings.com/clubsites/chevytalk/1944.jpg

David,

Help me to help you.
Do you know these three books dedicated to the Polish pre-WWII, 1939 Campaign and the Warsaw Uprising vehicles?


Adam Joñca, Rajmund Szubañski, Jan Tarczyñski
Wrzesieñ 1939. Pojazdy Wojska Polskiego
(September 1939. Vehicles of the Polish Army)
Wydawnictwa Komunikacji i £¹cznoœci, Warsaw 1990
ISBN 83-206-0847-3


Jan Tarczyñski
Pojazdy Armii Krajowej w Powstaniu Warszawskim
(The Domestic Army Vehicles in the Warsaw Uprising)
Wydawnictwo Komunikacji i £¹cznoœci, Warsaw 1994
ISBN 83-206-1121-0


Janusz Ledwoch
Warszawa 1944
(Warsaw 1944)
Wydawnictwo Militaria, Warsaw 2002
ISBN 83-7209-121-2

Here it is one more nice pic of the RC ambulance but this time from the USA.

http://img147.exs.cx/img147/6205/usc...ft0021b8ts.jpg
Fielding Tyler, US Coast Guard Museum ft0021b




For those of you interested in various Red Cross vehicles.

http://img88.exs.cx/img88/6426/libra...sw33042481.jpg
Library of Congress LC-USW33-042481

http://img88.exs.cx/img88/7003/libra...sw33042502.jpg
Library of Congress LC-USW33-042502

http://img88.exs.cx/img88/8238/libra...sw33042504.jpg
Library of Congress LC-USW33-042504

http://img139.exs.cx/img139/2272/del...es2384p2rs.jpg
Delaware Public Archives 2384p

Ex-bus?
 

I think the second one down shows a former London Transport Green Line coach, a Leyland TF ...see what you think.

http://www.countrybus.org.uk/TF/TF.html

The fourth one is evidently a Walk-thru body, and reminds me of Chevrolet/GMC styles but I shall have to look up my book.

I forgot to say thank you for the book suggestions! Sorry! I was born in 1955 and my parents knew several ex-Polish servicemen who stayed on in the UK after the war and married English girls and I went to school or knew sons and daughters of former sericemen. I also used to go to RAF Northolt a lot as an aircraft enthusiast, and I was proud to see that the Polish war memorial is still there just on the A40 road west of London.

Hmm, frankly speaking I am not an expert in the field of British WWII buses and their lines but most likely you are right. One has only to look into all pre-D-Day marshalling areas photographs to see great numbers of the British buses in the troop transportation tasks. For example Michel De Trez's "American Warriors" book shows it very well.


The last ambulances from my archive, though the lower pic shows rather not RC but the US Civil Defense vehicles if I am not mistaken.

http://img77.exs.cx/img77/4082/field...ardmuseumf.jpg
Fielding Tyler, Coast Guard Museum ft0021a

http://img77.exs.cx/img77/1392/nara6nz.jpg
US NARA

May 1941: British-Amercian Ambulance Corps
 

This 1941 Model YR panel van was donated by Southampton's namesake in the US, so I suggest was from South Hampton, on Long Island, New York. Note the Civic Centre in the background...where the van is now is still a car park! The Centre was built in the early Thirties and was bombed several times starting I think in November 1940.
http://clubs.hemmings.com/clubsites/...ncemay1941.jpg

I have been debating whether this is a military-style Panel Delivery, because of the wheel styles.

1941 CANADIAN vans
 

As a result of popular request, herewith Canadian versions..
a. swb van
http://clubs.hemmings.com/clubsites/...anadianvan.jpg

b. lwb van
http://clubs.hemmings.com/clubsites/...dianvanlwb.jpg

Models 1425 and 1435 respectively, 125.5 and 134.5 inch wheelbases. I believe the Model 1535 had the twin rear wheels, as it was rated at 2 tons, cf. 1 ton for the models featured.

And one more set of the pics with the Red Cross cars...

http://img167.echo.cx/img167/2388/lcusw3004693e2or.jpg
Library of Congress LC-USW3-004693-E

http://img167.echo.cx/img167/402/lcusw3004696e4bz.jpg
Library of Congress LC-USW3-004696-E

http://img171.echo.cx/img171/5486/lcusw3034520e4pm.jpg
Library of Congress LC-USW3-034520-E


http://img171.echo.cx/img171/5711/lcuse6d0015301oy.jpg
Library of Congress LC-USE6-D-001562

http://img171.echo.cx/img171/8029/lcuse6d0015626or.jpg
Library of Congress LC-USE6-D-001530

http://img171.echo.cx/img171/2847/lcuse6d0014750ii.jpg
Library of Congress LC-USE6-D-001475

With reference to the British buses well-known from the UK-based USAAF airfields, where they carried either US paras or other personel --> American Red Cross British bus.

http://img53.echo.cx/img53/2058/48494189xi.jpg
Franklin D. Roosevelt Library 48494(18)

The American Red Cross had some GMC-CCKW's as well. Here is a 1/35 scale model I did.

Pic 1

pic 2

pic 3

Cliff:

You are nothing short of amazing. Who would have thought to do just that model???
I am really up against it just now, would you like to take a shot at identifying Crewman's marvelous shots? I can most of them but am sort of just out of time right now.
Cheers
Bill

Bill unfortunately I can not accurately ID any of the trucks, or vans as I am not up on these models of vehicles.

Sorry
Cliff:salute:

OK, just a quick shot and not too many model/year specifics.

Crewmans first post on April 9.
1. International Harvester.
2. ?
3. 42 Ford
4. I would say a Divco or maybe an IH.
5. A Chevrolet

Second Post April 9:

1. Packard Henny
2. Packard Henny

Post of May 5

1. ??
2. ??
3. 1939-1940 Buick Limited
4. To me it looks like a Dodge
5/6. A 1941-1942 Chrysler.

Cheers
Bill

One of the most original WWII era "Red Cross ambulances" ;)

http://img231.echo.cx/img231/3594/lcusw3011306e6te.jpg
US Library of Congress LC-USW3-011306-E

I am led to believe that General Motors and Yellow coach buses were sent to England during the war..
1937 series model 728 and up....
Any records of them or pictures ..
I have all the manuals for them which leads me to believe they were in England and our Canadian mechanics repaired and serviced them..

Bus id?
 

I wonder if this is the correct i.d. for the bus?

Ian's Bus Stop

Alex,

It may seem to be slightly strange for you and theoretically not related to the buses but...

In 2003 I did an interview for the Polish MoD weekly with famous Belgian US WWII airborne forces collector, researcher and author Michel De Trez. He is an owner of big archive of photographs related to wartime life and combat of the US paras and glider troops fighting in the ETO. No doubt his archive contains also the pics from marshalling areas organized before every one airborne operation and he published such photos, for example in his famous book "American Warriors. Pictorial History of the American Paratroopers Prior to Normandy". If you may look please into this book on pages 60 and 61 – the buses carrying US paras are over there. Perhaps Michel has more such pics? You may contact Michel De Trez via his author's official website.

But I would say that there is "Big Two" of such men. The second one is Mark Bando from the USA who has a little narrower specialization – only WWII-era 101st Airborne Division. He is also famous collector, researcher, author of the books and no doubt an owner of the archive similar to Michel De Trez's one. It would be hard to believe that his archive does not contain historic pics from pre-Overlord and pre-Market Garden marshalling areas. Just in case research Mark Bando's official website and you may contact him via MarkBando@aol.com


Best regards

C. :)