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-   -   1 May 2020 Canadian firearms legislation changes (http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/showthread.php?t=31156)

maple_leaf_eh 01-05-20 19:14

1 May 2020 Canadian firearms legislation changes
 
Canada has just announced a list of 1500 firearms that are moving from the scary but slightly OK list to the really really bad list by change of regulation. The program is a 2-year catchup between today's Order in Council to legislation passed in Parliament.

A few things caught my eye as I read down, and wanted to alert owners to do their legal required best until further notice.

http://www.gazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p2/20...tTa3zMsECViifk

ie (z.221) Russian Artillery M1942 Anti-Tank Gun;
M72 Rocket Launcher
several Mortars and Recoilless Rifles

rob love 01-05-20 20:00

Two year amnesty and can continue to be stored as per their previous classifications. Can only be transported once either to bring them home or to bring them back to their owner.



Very encompassing, and bans a lot of historic items that are of no particular threat to the public. It would appear that the 2" mortar may not be re-classified as it's muzzle velocity is under the threshold to be classed as a firearm, but we'll see once the firearms tables are made available again.



They are talking about future buybacks as well as grandfathering.

Bruce Parker 01-05-20 22:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by rob love (Post 269198)
Two year amnesty and can continue to be stored as per their previous classifications. Can only be transported one either to bring them home or to bring them back to their owner.


Very encompassing, and bans a lot of historic items that are of no particular threat to the public. It would appear that the 2" mortar may not be re-classified as it's muzzle velocity is under the threshold to be classed as a firearm, but we'll see once the firearms tables are made available again.


They are talking about future buybacks as well as grandfathering.

But a 3" and rocket launcher is? Note also that the wording in the OIC says 'including' before what's listed. So if it's not listed but meets the criteria it's prohibited even if it's not listed. PIAT?

maple_leaf_eh 01-05-20 22:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Parker (Post 269206)
But a 3" and rocket launcher is? Note also that the wording in the OIC says 'including' before what's listed. So if it's not listed but meets the criteria it's prohibited even if it's not listed. PIAT?

Let's not trumpet the inadequacies of the list and give the authorities reasons to change the list. For example, I picked up two spelling mistakes, and highlighted an apparent WTF inclusion to the appropriate office.

chris vickery 02-05-20 00:34

And next, the asshat in Ottawa will be coming for our green machines.
They’ve as much said that, in so far now as looking into people who collect police stuff after the tragedy in Nova Scotia.
Who needs a military vehicle? Are you some kind of nut?
Look how Quebec has already harassed MV owners with proposed bans for roadworthiness.
The police state is just over the horizon, mark my words.

James P 02-05-20 01:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris vickery (Post 269212)
And next, the asshat in Ottawa will be coming for our green machines.
They’ve as much said that, in so far now as looking into people who collect police stuff after the tragedy in Nova Scotia.
Who needs a military vehicle? Are you some kind of nut?
Look how Quebec has already harassed MV owners with proposed bans for roadworthiness.
The police state is just over the horizon, mark my words.

Damn right, next in the socialist/Liberals sights will be hand guns, more semi autos, pump shot guns and lever actions, once those are rolled up they will move on dewats and maybe start on first person shooter vid games. The idiot Liberals are going to keep milking this cow as long and as hard as possible.

Dave Newcomb 02-05-20 01:13

Join the USA?????
 
I personally would welcome any Province that wants a Star. After our 1812 war??? Newc

Lynn Eades 02-05-20 07:33

If it's not too late you guys need to COLLECTIVELY fight this.
Stuff all unity here in N.Z. :bang:
My wife is still allowed her knitting needles, for now.

rob love 02-05-20 17:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Parker (Post 269206)
PIAT?


Definition of a firearm begins with "a barrelled weapon...". No barrel on a PIAT. However, they can prohibit devices, as they have in the past. Throwing stars, nunchucks, brass knuckles.....a piat should fit right in there.

rob love 02-05-20 21:58

Yep. You have an amnesty for now, so can continue to store them the way you have been, but you can't take them out, can't sell them, can't use them. You can turn them in for compensation to be determined at a later date, and you can deactivate them. I have the guidelines for deactivation of larger bore stuff here somewhere. The chamber is drilled and pinned with a hardened dowel of 1/2" if I recall.



An organization that I belong to sent an email today indicating they are going to take action either politically (we still have some political allies) or through court action. They tell us not to panic which is the first good thing I have heard in a day.



If you look on rebel news, apparently n their hast to get as many submodels of the AR15 as possible, the included a couple of websites and an Eastern locksmiths business name.



Perhaps one option is to go the museum/business route. That would allow the possession, display and use of these items.

Bruce Parker 02-05-20 22:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdmcm (Post 269229)
Seems to me with a stroke of a pen they have also banned all live tank cannons and artillery....20mm and over? Am I reading that right?

Because they have so much to do with Nova Scotia. Come to think of it, the election promise was for 'salt guns' so how did these sorts of things get mixed up in all of this. Apparently there are airsoft toy 'weapons' that meet the description for the ban. But don't worry, you've got 2 years before you have to chop it off and hand it in, but no parades off the property mind...

Bruce Parker 02-05-20 22:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by rob love (Post 269230)
Yep. You have an amnesty for now, so can continue to store them the way you have been, but you can't take them out, can't sell them, can't use them. You can turn them in for compensation to be determined at a later date, and you can deactivate them. I have the guidelines for deactivation of larger bore stuff here somewhere. The chamber is drilled and pinned with a hardened dowel of 1/2" if I recall.



An organization that I belong to sent an email today indicating they are going to take action either politically (we still have some political allies) or through court action. They tell us not to panic which is the first good thing I have heard in a day.

If you look on rebel news, apparently n their hast to get as many submodels of the AR15 as possible, the included a couple of websites and an Eastern locksmiths business name.

Perhaps one option is to go the museum/business route. That would allow the possession, display and use of these items.

I think the strategy to defeat this lies in how it was implemented as well. It is a massive confiscation of legally owned property and was done through a non-debated Order in Council by a minority government that isn't even sitting currently, all in the middle of a world wide pandemic with people dying and locked in their homes losing their livelihoods and businesses. Heck, you can't even gather outside to protest. Surely our fellow Canadians can see the injustice in that.

The stated reason was a response to the tragic Nova Scotia killings but the scope shows it goes way beyond that and had been in the works for some time. To use that tragedy as a spring board for such a massive underhanded political grab is fowl and beneath my contempt.

charlie fitton 02-05-20 22:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by rob love (Post 269230)
Yep. You have an amnesty for now......

......I have the guidelines for deactivation of larger bore stuff here somewhere. The chamber is drilled and pinned with a hardened dowel of 1/2" if I recall.

....... use of these items.

Once you did up these guidelines, would you kindly share?

rob love 02-05-20 22:54

The RCMP deactivation guidelines are not really aimed at the mortars, rocket launchers and artillery. They were more for small arms, but can be followed on the larger stuff with some adaptation.



The Cdn forces did come out with a technical order for the preperation of certain howitzers and tank guns for display. In that one, they even had you welding the wheel nuts in place. Sure makes it hard to repair a tire down the road.

Robin Craig 03-05-20 01:01

If you have two years to do anything why would anyone alter anything in haste only to have a new government overturn it all? Asking for a friend . ..

chris vickery 03-05-20 01:32

As upsetting as all this is, we need to see how it is going to play out. Hastiness is certainly not something to be taken lightly. If I hadn't in the past, I would still have had rights to 12(X) items which I sold off last round of this BS.

rob love 03-05-20 02:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robin Craig (Post 269236)
If you have two years to do anything why would anyone alter anything in haste only to have a new government overturn it all? Asking for a friend . ..

Well now were getting heavy into politics, but here goes:
Last election the Liberals won only a minority, (they actually got less votes than the opposition party) and Trudeau suffered from over exposure combined with stupidity. At the end of the election, he kind of took a lower position, and his deputy minister was supposed to do a lot of the public exposure. However, with Covid, he has been coming out once a day to say nothing, and with some of their shortfalls on handling the crisis here, are worried about their government falling once parliament is sitting again. Remember, it was the Liberals who tried to sneak in that bit into the emergency bill that would have given them unchallenged powers to regulate, tax and spend until the end of 2021. Coincidental, that is when the bulk of theLiberal MPs would qualify for pensions (56 years).
Gun control is a wedge issue. If the conservatives come out too strong against it they will be played as rednecks come next election. If they remain quiet, then the gunowners, who are passionate of their sport, will not provide monetary support. Make no mistake, they are also ridign the cotails of the Nova Scotia event, which quite frankly would not have changed one iota if these rules were in place then.


Trudeau has been running high deficits since he got into the position 5 years ago. He had and had little room to maneuver when Covid hit. We are now into a recession, and things are going to be tough for the next few years. They will use any tricks they can find to try and maintain power.

Bruce Parker 03-05-20 02:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by rob love (Post 269238)
Well now were getting heavy into politics, but here goes:
Last election the Liberals won only a minority, (they actually got less votes than the opposition party) and Trudeau suffered from over exposure combined with stupidity. At the end of the election, he kind of took a lower position, and his deputy minister was supposed to do a lot of the public exposure. However, with Covid, he has been coming out once a day to say nothing, and with some of their shortfalls on handling the crisis here, are worried about their government falling once parliament is sitting again. Remember, it was the Liberals who tried to sneak in that bit into the emergency bill that would have given them unchallenged powers to regulate, tax and spend until the end of 2021. Coincidental, that is when the bulk of theLiberal MPs would qualify for pensions (56 years).
Gun control is a wedge issue. If the conservatives come out too strong against it they will be played as rednecks come next election. If they remain quiet, then the gunowners, who are passionate of their sport, will not provide monetary support. Make no mistake, they are also ridign the cotails of the Nova Scotia event, which quite frankly would not have changed one iota if these rules were in place then.


Trudeau has been running high deficits since he got into the position 5 years ago. He had and had little room to maneuver when Covid hit. We are now into a recession, and things are going to be tough for the next few years. They will use any tricks they can find to try and maintain power.

Trudeau shamelessly used this pandemic to not only slide in this greasy gun thing, but to hide a closet full of misdeeds and scandals.

I have had an uneasy feeling about this and put it down to the dirty way it was done and how little concern there was for truth, 'evidence' or how many business, outfitters, gun stores and suppliers it would decimate but there's something else.

Many of us collect and restore military stuff because we like to, but also because we feel a responsibility to honour the soldiers who used it and craftspeople who made it. At great effort and expense we make it available to the public to see, feel, touch...a link to the brave lads that defended us using it.

With this gun ban, that includes many of these artefacts that are decades old and not a danger to anyone, the government and people who support it are in effect saying they don't care and our efforts are not appreciated.

That hurts.

maple_leaf_eh 03-05-20 06:06

Nearly prohibited firearms for the HMV crowd
 
The letter of the regulations is about a certain number of joules of muzzle energy. To that end, the list of really really bad pieces now specifies a number of mortars, towed anti-tank pieces, crew served and shoulder controlled recoilless rifles, and (with God as my witness) Surface to Air Missiles. If you have one of these on your property or museum, you need to weigh getting the next level of paperwork and storage to keep Prohibited Firearms just like live machine guns, or consider having them deactivated.

This is a piece of regulation that seems to have been ginned up based on a few rather specious arguments without consulting the museum community. Now is the time to get your Member of Parliament's attention, and as many of the local historical community associations as you can.

To give an example, Gunner Mike and his truly merry mob of blackpowder sniffers run a Canada Day convoy around his local area. We nearby HMV owners join his parade for the occasion, for the generous lunch at the local Legion and for the chance to meet and visit. (I do it so I can tell the Shriners and the nice horsey people where to fall in, but that's just me.) Mike's part of the show is to fire 6-Pounder salutes at noon. His 6-Pounder is technically now as horrible a danger to society as an AR15 or a box of live M72 Light Anti-tank Rockets. Yup.

Robert Bergeron 03-05-20 15:17

British Mortar ML-3 Inch , British Mortar ML-4.2 Inch , Rocket Launcher Panzerfaust 3 and all similar WW2 relics , US Mortar M1 & Mk2 , US Recoilless M20 of Korean war vintage , Boys Mark 1*, Boys Mk 1 , All the German and Russian Anti Tank rifles from WW1 to WW2 , TNW Browning M2 to name just a few . Yes , the empty fiberglass M72 is on the list right beside the TOW, Javelin, Stinger , Milan , Dragon and Fagot !

Petr Brezina 03-05-20 15:31

Its still, still, still the same story. EU, NZ, Canada, all the same. They will never stop.
Unite and be insistent.

Paul Singleton 03-05-20 18:03

Firearms
 
I saw this online today,

https://firearmrights.ca/en/ccfr-cal...lairs-removal/

Perry Kitson 04-05-20 16:20

The Firearms Act clearly states "All applicants are screened to ensure that there are no reasons why, in the interest of public safety, they should not possess a firearm".
The military hating prime minister has abolished these types on looks alone. It was former prime minister Chretien who said " there is no reason anyone, other than the military and police, should possess firearms". Looks like JT is a chip off the old block.
As far as "fair market value" is concerned if it comes to a buy back program, they will have effectively destroyed any value the firearms have, and will probably only offer a fraction of what people paid for them.
Giving provinces and municipalities the power to ban handguns, property that was legally purchased and then criminalized, perhaps the provinces and municipalities would pay for relocation costs to those who don't want to give up their property.
Hold on to your hats folks, if this guy stays in power, we are in for a rough ride, as JT (and his NDP, Bloc and Green minions) transforms our country into his Utopia.

Bruce Parker 05-05-20 14:06

It's very ironic that Holland is celebrating the 75th anniversary if its liberation and connection to Canada at the same time Canada's government is attacking the very artefacts and Canadians who are most inclined to remember and celebrate it.

Perry Kitson 05-05-20 21:58

https://t.co/rili2cI0sc

Above is a link to a petition to have the new firearm ban overturned. Use it or loose it.

Perry

James P 06-05-20 01:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perry Kitson (Post 269321)
https://t.co/rili2cI0sc

Above is a link to a petition to have the new firearm ban overturned. Use it or loose it.

Perry

Done ! And I am sick and tired as all CDN owners are of being held as a political hostage by the Trudeau Liberal regime.

Lynn Eades 06-05-20 02:29

You guys have to fight with unity, and when you think you've done enough and spent enough money, you need to do some more.
Otherwise your kids and grand kids will not know the freedom you have/ had. It has happened here, but you appear to be leap frogging us. We lacked a consolidated approach several years back.

rob love 06-05-20 03:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Bergeron (Post 269329)
We are not leap frogging Lynn , we are pole vaulting all the way to the moon by gosh ! Please fellows , don’t remind the powers to be that they forgot the very dangerous PIAT ( for the uneducated this is irony ) on their infamous list . The cumbersome , heavy and crude projector that helped a famous Canadian hero earn the Victoria Cross !!! Blair’s list . The list of shame . This post will self destruct in 10 minutes .


A PIAT would not meet the definition of a firearm, since it has no barrel. But then again, they can write just about anything on that list. Don't forget that nunchuks and throwing stars are on previous lists. Apparently on the TV series KungFu in the 70s, they were quite deadly in the hands of David Carradine.



Apparently the new list may have inadvertently prohibited most 12 and 10 gauge shotguns because of their bore diameters. They also appear to have banned two websites and a New Brunswick locksmith in their haste to list all the AR rifles. Stay off of AR15.com lest you break the new OIC.

Ed Storey 06-05-20 18:53

Assault Gun Ban
 
The incoherent and ambiguous fire arms ban brought in late last week was not unexpected by our current Liberal government. The confusion over the latest list was amplified by weak and uniformed reporting by the mainstream media who did little to look into the list and basically parroted what was said by the Prime Minister and Public Safety Minister Blair. Today the Ottawa Citizen published a column which went beyond the Liberal rhetoric and actually looked at some of the omissions, and absurdities of the 1500 ‘Assault Gun’ list. The Citizen even quoted some of the PM’s speaking points such as “all of the firearms included under the ban were designed to kill the largest amount of people in the shortest amount of time” and that “you don’t need an AR-15 to bring down a deer”.

Within the column the Citizen also reported that “the regulations prohibited certain firearms while allowing their competitors – based in foreign countries – to continue selling in Canada” and most likely alluded to the Chinese-made Norinco Type 97, which is not on the list. The column also highlighted just how partisan this whole ban is which panders to the masses of ill-informed voting Canadians who have never handled a firearm or know anything about them and quoted a spokesperson for Minister Blair who said “certain semi-automatic rifles were not included in the ban because they did not meet certain thresholds – primarily that they are not considered to be of “modern design” and not present in large volumes in the Canadian market”.

The balance of the current Liberal minority government’s power is based within urban Canada and specifically the GTA where gun crime is a hot button topic. As well, since most Canadians have no knowledge of weapons and even if the average person were inclined to look at the list, it is doubtful that he or she would be able to distinguish the difference between an American Tactical Imports Omni (even I had to look that one up) or a Recoilless Rifle M40A1. So based on a lack of accurate information from the government and little personal knowledge of firearms getting the average voter to not support this ban is perhaps wishful thinking.

Bruce Parker 06-05-20 19:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Storey (Post 269356)
So based on a lack of accurate information from the government and little personal knowledge of firearms getting the average voter to not support this ban is perhaps wishful thinking.

The government absolutely knows this and is counting on it. All part of the plan I'm afraid. Sneaking in Boys rifle and vintage mortar bans was just opportunistic and may have been an insurance policy against criticism if it ever got too loud. All they'd have so say is "who needs a howitzer?" No amount of argument that they are historical, old, carefully and expensively restored, honour our war effort and soldiers and have been safely owned for multiple decades would do any good swaying the average urbanite's feelings.

Interesting, the minister pushing this (I shan't name him, you know who he is if you're from around here) was questioned yesterday why certain 'assault rifles' were banned when others weren't. His answer was something like "the ones not banned are older technology and are very few in Canada". Well ho-lee. If Boys rifles and 17 pounders don't fit that exactly I don't know what does. So why are they included in the ban?


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