Truck, 15-cwt, 4x2, A.A.
 

This thread is to gather information about the Truck, 15-cwt, 4x2, A.A.


From: http://bcoy1cpb.pacdat.net/20_mm_aa_guns.htm

Page from British Data Book (reprint) showing the CMP portee with gun mount, but no gun.

Attachment 79687

Page from the AEDB Design Record showing a Canadian Military Pattern 20mm AA 15 Cwt Cab 13 truck under test (thus the "EE" on the door) probably the prototype:

Attachment 79688

A 20mm gun mounted on a Universal Mounting on the back of a CMP 15 Cwt, War Department number Z 5194984. Photo - Andy Morgan

Attachment 79690

A 20mm gun, possibly the same one as shown above, shown deployed on the ground. Photo - Andy Morgan

Attachment 79691

Pictures of the single 4x4 prototype - production models were on 4x2 C15, F15 and Bedford MW chassis only.

Attachment 79693 Attachment 79694 Attachment 79695
Attachment 79696 Attachment 79697

Pictures courtesy of Clive Law.

Details of Body 2L1.

Attachment 79700 Attachment 79698 Attachment 79699

Pictures courtesy of Clive Law.

Deploying the gun:

Attachment 79701 Attachment 79702 Attachment 79703

Pictures courtesy of Clive Law.

See Unique 1943 Canadian Ford F15(AA) for pictures of the only restored example in the world.

Attachment 79704

See C15 4x2 for pictures of an unrestored and still very original C15, albeit without the Polsten gun.

http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/at...2&d=1089830575

They were used operationally in NW Europe, although after the Allies gained air superiority, the trucks were relegated to other duties.

Pic below was taken on 08 Jun 1944 On a Normandy beach. Reportedly the unit which used them was the 15th (Isle of Man) Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment.

http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/at...4&d=1057462422

Bedford MW version of this truck:

Attachment 79705

Bedford 20mm
 

Hello Hanno,

I can add a little information about the Bedford variant, for what it's worth. There were only 250 made. I found this photocopy in the box of Bedford contract cards at bovington tank museum.

Attachment 79828

Does anyone know what book this came from and does anyone have a copy?

and the contract card for 200.

Attachment 79829

At the 1:40 mark.

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/i...ect/1060019646


At the 1:18 mark

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/i...ect/1060019647

Great find, Jordan - thanks!



Both these films were shot at the same location and they both show the same pair of 4x2 AA trucks.

This is new footage to me and the first time I saw them actually moving!

Thanks Jordan,
As Hanno said, it's the first time I have seen these rare conversions actually on the move, both of them are Ford F15's, towing 10 cwt trailers
Great find
Keith

20mm Portee in use in Italy
 

A C15A chassis by the look of it. Hanno thinks the body and gun were transferred from a 4x2 chassis. Canadian Army Photo

Attachment 108520

The platform is different. Check out the are above the wheels.

Thanks Steve. Actually, after looking at it again, I see a cut-down and modified steel 15-cwt body. Probably a 2C1.

Bedford MW
 

John, thanks for that.

Here is a great picture of the production version of the Bedford MW "Polsten" AA truck.

If I read it correctly it's WD census number is Z5194317.

Attachment 116349 Attachment 116404

MWC water tanker chassis?
 

Hello John,

Do I understand correctly the chassis + cabs for the 20-mm AA trucks were based on MWC water tanker chassis? (The bodies were fitted by outside contractors.)

Attachment 116368

A Windsor Carrier ?
 

At the start of Jordan Baker's video there is what looks like a Windsor with its canvas up ? If so quite unusual to see an action photo of a Windsor, especially with the canvas up.
Preston Isaac

Carrier with canvas
 

Hello Preston,

Nice catch! I think is a Universal Carrier, though. IIRC Windsors were not used yet on 1944-07-31 when this footage was shot. Anyhow, it is rare to see a Carrier with a canvas tilt!

Attachment 116386

Carrier with canvas
 

Hi Hanno, Sadly I think you are correct. I was carried away (forgive the pun) with the overall look of the canvas and the hoops. Many thanks Preston.

Hi Hanno,
Cracking pictures of the 15 cwt Bedford AA mount. Interesting to note the "Mickey mouse " camouflage scheme , and the additional lockers above the two upright lockers, which housed the .303 rounds.
Thanks for posting
Keith

.303 rounds? or 20mm Keith? Polsten being a simplified Oerlikon, but both being a 20mm cannon (auto)

Hi Lynn,
The upright lockers contained the 303 rounds, and the horizontal lockers contained the 4 off 20mm loaded snail drums, 60 rounds per drum.
The 10 cwt towed trailer had the rest of the ammo in (600 rounds of 20mm ammo and 746 rounds of 303 ammo) plus the crew kit etc. Bear in mind the crew had a Bren gun and probably a 303 rifle each.
I'm not sure I would want to be towing this trailer about with all this ammo on board !
Best regards
Keith

3 more CMP Polsten carriers.

Thanks for sharing these, Wolfy. These large format pictures are a nice addition to the thread:thup:

Alex

and the much less well known Fordson WOT 2 variant -

Great find, Carleton!

Another great find by Niels Vegger: https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/i...ect/1060008447

“II. Large numbers of Fordson fifteen-hundredweight trucks, Morris light utility cars and Canadian military-pattern trailer tractors (sic) are stored alongside a branch of the Great Western Railway at No 55 Vehicle Reserve Depot, Little Stretton, Shropshire.”

Screenshots of above footage attached here:

Attachment 126485 Attachment 126486 Attachment 126487

Agree with Hanno, great find
What's interesting is the partial use of camouflage on the locker system, which housed the snail drums and .303 rounds.
Question is, what type of camo was this ( bearing in mind this was early 44, could it be foliage ?), and why was this only on the locker system, and not the rest of the CMP.

IWM photo H39753: https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/i...ject/205511241