Wireless time piece 19
 

Is there such a thing as a "standard" pocket watch that goes in a 19 wireless set? or is any ww 11 pocket watch OK?Never seen anything on this. Thanks Derrick Eastman

Yes, there is a proper pocket watch for the 19 set. The Canadian examples I have seen had the C/i\ on the back along with a serial number. The only marking on the face, other than the numbers etc, is "swiss" on the very bottom.

The TPGP (time piece general purpose) is very similar but has a black face. The 19 set watch has white.

ws19 pocket watch
 

Marc Montgomery in the for sale section has the proper watch bases
I have a very old pocket watch with its own metal stand.
from books I have read, theft was common also in another very good book
"Surviving The Odds" BY Jack Capell a US soldier was shot in the back and
his souvenir pistol stolen. after that soldiers were told to register any valuable souvenirs with their division.:remember

There was an earlier thread on watches.
http://www.mapleleafup.org/forums/sh...ad.php?t=11740

To briefly cover it, no, the 19 set was not issued with a watch. At least with the British, Canadian & US sets. I was told that the Italian kits came with one.

As Dennis said they had a tendency to go walk about. Also wrist watches were starting to be be issued to the troops rather than pocket watches. The watch had a VAOS number which is a stores number. Manufacturers made watches to meet the spec so you never new what brand/marking you got.

Hello Derrick and Rob.

With regards to the pocket watch used in the WS No. 19 watch holder (and other sets similarly equipped), to confirm Rob's information, you do need to find a watch with the three key lines of information on the back cover showing it was military issue: the British or Canadian Acceptance Mark, the letters G.S.T.P. and the serial number. The serial number should have a single letter prefix, which in the case of Canadian watches will be a 'C'.

The movements will all be unmarked and some, as Rob mentioned, will have SWISS printed on the bottom portion of the face, but not always. You need to look for a watch approx. 51mm in diameter and 12mm thick. There are a number of similar commercial watches and some WW1 items out there which are too big.

As Rob stated, there are three styles of face on the WW2 military watches issued in England and Canada: all white, all black and black with a white second sweep dial. Once you have collected enough Wireless Set manuals, you will find all three in use in the pocket watch holders.

These watches show up on a regular basis on eBay and can be quite inexpensive if you sort out your priorities. The first step is deciding if you really need a working watch. They command a much higher price than a non-runner, but there are some very good looking non-runners to be had and if it's just going to sit in the watch holder looking pretty 24/7 what's it really matter? The most sought after pocket watches will be one's sold by Officer Kit Shops. These places typically took the standard issue military watch and had their shop name added to the face, adding a few extra quid to the sale price in the process and collector's drool over them today.

If the watch is really minty, ie-stored out of UV radiation all these years, the luminous paint on the face will still be green and active. If the watch has seen a lot of daylight, the luminous paint will have oxidized to an inert rust colour. The 9, 12 and 3 will be fully painted, along with the bottom edge of the 6 which is mostly obscured by the second sweep dial. There should also be a luminous dot outside each other number. Some people think the old paint is either fatally dangerous if still working, or confuse it with rust and clean the face "to improve it". Sadly they destroy part if it's identity in the process.

The second sweep hand is always solid blued metal. Style can vary from maker to maker. The hour and minute hands will be of two main types: solid blue metal with spade point ends, or skeleton framework - straight bar or spade ended. The skeleton hands were dipped in luminous paint which occupied the open spaces in the framework and gave a better night indication of where they were pointing. Over time, the watches get banged around a bit and the paint suspended in the framework of the hands falls out. Again, some people take the watch apart to clean this all out, so be wary of skeleton hands on a military pocket watch that are missing the luminous paint. Their authenticity has been compromised.

Lastly, be wary of fakes on eBay. Always take a close look at the markings on the back cover. At first glance they appear to have been stamped into the metal, but if you look closely, you will notice there is never any depressed metal around the edges of the letters etc. which a stamping machine typically creates. If you see signs of stamping - walk away from the watch. The markings were actually produced by an engraving tool. If you look closely you can see the traces of where the engraving head was spinning as it forms each letter and number. You can also spot the start and stop points at each end of the letters and numbers where the engraving head has moved into and out of the metal. I have seen some watches on eBay that have clearly been marked with a modern vibrating engraving tool - if you see it - walk away.

Purchased from the Supply Depot, the watch came with no chain or lanyard. These would be added later by each individual soldier. The lanyard I have seen most is the typical leather issue one as used on the CMP etc machete, folding wire cutters, etc.

One other point, the front and back covers are usually of the snap in place design, but a few makers used screw on covers. Either are quite legitimate.

Hope this helps,


David

Moved this subject to its own thread in its own forum :thup2:

H.