Methyl bromide fire extinguisher
 

Does anyone have the measurements for a WWII methyl bromide fire extinguisher such as would be used on armored vehicles? I need to make a couple for my Sexton. Thanks, Jesse.

Hello Jesse,

Hereby a drawing from an example I have here.

Succes!

Marco

Here is an original bromide extinguisher hanging in my sample room. Gives an idea of the markings. ... Brian

Hello Jesse,

I was uncertain about the "methyl" part of the fire extinguisher? Methyl Bromide was a nerve gas and is used as a soil fumigant. It is very - very toxic stuff. I then checked online and came across this link Accessed 16th of October 2015 from, http://collections.museumvictoria.com.au/items/408264

Here is an old advertisement from England in 1940 about them - Accessed 16th of October 2015 from, https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarch...0-%201021.html

I also found a newspaper article about a Methyl Bromide poisoning that recounts as survivor's story about how their fireman father brought home an old fire extinguisher that he did not know was leaking Accessed 16th of October 2015 from, http://www.kmbc.com/news/methyl-brom...mpact/32242878 dated 9:38 PM CDT Apr 07, 2015

Kind Regards
Lionel

Thank you gentlemen. Jesse.

Have you considered turning one up in wood?


Robin

Hey Jesse

I bought a huge lot of fire extinguisher bottles for armored vehicles at the
Littlefield auction last summer, I am only interested in the Sherman bottles, I will check to see if there happen to be any of the bottles you are after in the lot.

John

John

Interested in Sherman interior extinguishers and also the Methyl Bromide ones for my Sherman Firefly.

If you have more spare and for sale i would be very interested in hearing from you.

Cheers

Tim

I make brackets for these if any one needs some.

Adrian

I have made the bracket, but need the strap and buckle.

How much for just those parts please?

Regards
Doug
www.owningtanks.com

JDMCM, I would be interested in some as well for our Sexton if you find you have a surplus. I might need some of the bottles for the engine compartment system as well.

Sean

I have a few reproduction ones, might see if we can get them cast or redone etc. I will check to see what cost might be, so maybe doing up an order.

Sorry for my tardiness in replying to the various messages.

I have enough parts for 14 more brackets and I will probably process them into completed units in one hit to keep the set up costs down. I have previously been making them as required.

Doug, I don't have spare strap parts so don't really want to sell them separately as I will then be left with useless brackets.

The spring clamp can accommodate genuine or repro extinguishers.

Price each is £70, as in the picture, no extinguisher though! Happy to ship worldwide, will try to get shipping prices for those who asked.

Adrian

The bracket is the heavy part, postage to Australia would be horrific.

As I have already made the brackets quite some time back, I am only in
need of the straps and buckles. Even they, will be expensive to post to
Oz.

So next time you do some, do an extra 3 straps please?

Regards
Doug

Fire extinguishers
 

Having the right piece of kit should never get in the way of its actual function. After setting fire to a borrowed MB last summer and extinguishing the fire with my drinking water, I have become much more alert to fire safety.

Whatever you decide to do in the end, please make sure you have sufficient serviceable extinguishers to beat down any likely surprises while operating your HMV.

Terry

That also brings up a point. The cheapest extinguishers are the powder type, in Oz you can pick up a 1kg type for around $25.
However, what most people don't know is that powder packs down with time, quicker with movement and doubtless very quickly on a tracked vehicle.
It effectively becomes solid and thus may not come out when a fire extinguisher is used in an emergency.

When a powder extinguisher is serviced, they turn it upside down and bash it with a rubber mallet to free
up the powder, usually once every 6 months in a commercial/industrial situation.

When was the last time any of you did that?

So, the correct extinguisher is very important, not only for ability to put out the fire, but so that it will actually huff and puff the way it is supposed to.

Hence why the military use a gaseous extinguisher in vehicles. The problem, as pointed out earlier in this thread (yes it was a surprise to me too) is
that Methyl Bromide is very bad. It would appear to have been a replacement (but not health wise) for Carbon Tetra Chloride extinguishers that
we all are familiar with on WW2 Jeeps, they too are very bad for your health!

The only benefit was that the Methyl extinguisher did not have to be pumped the way the CTC did.

You will notice that the
Methyl extinguishers (well, the British ones at least) are of the "Strike the end" (not stoppable) design.
I know a bloke who did that with 3 of them throwing each one into the engine bay of a burning Centurion,
rather than holding the extinguisher and aiming it the way the instructions said. Perhaps he knew better
than to be close to the gas released from the extinguisher?

So, we have pretty looking original extinguishers, but then have the conundrum, that if they are charged, is it
a good idea to risk our health by using them, or instead watch the vehicle destroy itself?

That brings us back to having both a genuine (preferably empty) extinguisher to look the part, but also a modern
one to use if needed.

CO2 is probably the most appropriate for us, but of course you need to do your own homework for your installation.

Of course, as always with a technicality, CO2 is a much more expensive unit to buy.

Regards
Doug

I carry modern fire extinguishers in my vehicles, internal and external, the repro bromide is on the side, but the bin next to it has the modern one, I also would not suggest not having a modern extinguisher, a certain friend had a carrier fire a few years ago :eek:

Were or are carriers subject to collecting gas fumes?
 

Hi All

After reading this thread and the most recent post concerning carrying a modern fire extinguishers, I have a question do carriers and similar armored vehicles have the same problem with gas fumes collecting in their hulls as boats do?

Over the years I have seen several boat fires/explosions blamed or explained as fumes collecting in the hull not being vented prior to starting. Is this a problem with carriers, or do the cooling fans do a good enough job of purging the air?

Cheers Phil

Short answer is "depends".

Long answer is: the risk is due to the fumes being heavier than air, which typically applies to most "fuel" fumes. If the shape of the "Vessel" is such
that the fumes cannot naturally flow out then you have a potential problem.

Your greatest risk is not when the engine is running UNLESS you have a fuel leak or a badly designed device - it is when you energise the electrical system prior to or during starting.

The greatest risk is when the device has been sitting and the fumes build up, be it due to a fuel leak or a venting issue. Thus, there is an explosive mixture waiting for something to set it off. The something is usually a spark from a battery being hooked up, a starter solenoid energising, a relay closing that is not properly sealed etc. Up to this point, no fan is turning so there is no air/fume scavenging happening.

I also need to caution about batteries, even in a well ventilated location, a battery that is off gassing hydrogen is a dangerous thing.
TAKE NOTE - Far more people are blown up every year by battery explosions than ever happens with vessel fume explosions.
Batteries will off gas hydrogen when a change of state happens ie, being charged or being discharged. The off gassing can generate hydrogen quick enough that even with the bonnet/hood/cover open on say a car, natural air movement will not scavenge the gas quickly enough. Much worse with a battery down inside say an AFV hull.
Hence why my Ferret batteries are located in one of the panniers and not
in the original location (the other being that constantly having to lift them out
through the turret above my head was no fun).
If you have to jump start a vehicle, hook up the positive clamps first, hook up the negative lead to the bad battery and then make the last connection to the body of the "donor" vehicle NOT to the negative post of its battery. Typically you will then get a spark, that spark needs to happen as far away from either battery as possible, but most importantly as far away AS POSSIBLE from the bad battery - typically the bad battery will be off gassing due to failed starting attempts. Wear glasses ALWAYS when dealing with batteries - if a battery blows up, sulphuric acid goes everywhere, most injuries associated with battery explosions are permanent blindness.
Remember the Hindenburg - that was a Hydrogen event, what few people realise is that it was a hydrogen fire, rather than a hydrogen explosion. Were it an actual explosion nobody would have been around to tell the tale.

A couple of years ago, a tradesman and his apprentice had a lucky escape in Oz when the tradie triggered the remote door lock on his work van as they were walking towards it one morning. The resultant explosion disassembled the van
(Toyota Hi-Ace size) and doubtless scared most of the neighbourhood out of their sleep. They were blown to the ground, but were ok. Unbelievably lucky. Both of them had forgotten to turn off the
Oxy/Acetylene bottles the day before, the handset had leaked and filled the van with fumes. We have all seen door remote solenoids, they are small, normally sealed by a rubber boot and not the sort of thing you would expect to make a spark. Either that or a relays somewhere inside the vehicle made the spark.

Oh, just found the link to the tradie van explosion: more devastating than I remembered.



Regards
Doug

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Waterman (Post 217553) Hi All After reading this thread and the most recent post concerning carrying a modern fire extinguishers, I have a question do carriers and similar armored vehicles have the same problem with gas fumes collecting in their hulls as boats do? Over the years I have seen several boat fires/explosions blamed or explained as fumes collecting in the hull not being vented prior to starting. Is this a problem with carriers, or do the cooling fans do a good enough job of purging the air? Cheers Phil

In our club - 15 Recce - all vehicles have an external stowed modern fire extuingisher. Before the unit takes to the field we do a vehicle saftey brief with our crew and any assigned riders. One item is where the modern extuingisers are for anyone to grab in an emergency. Crew know the stwoage for the internal ones as we are in each other's vehicles often enough.

We also have a medic "crash bag" taken to the field in one of the vehicles and that is also pointed out in the brief.

Maybe I should start a thread for a common-sense, practical modern safety brief to hold with reenactment clubs with several vehicles with crew and non-crew riders......

Jim

Sounds like a good idea.

Make sure you include "bail in" and emphasise the dangers of bailing out if a vehicle could roll or be in an accident.
With the exception of fire, where bailing out is the first action after alerting all on board.

Regards
Doug

:thup2:This is the first one I've seen sold. http://m.g.ebay.co.uk/itm/WWII-Briti...566?nav=SEARCH WOW !!! I ended up making two out of plastic last year from the drawings Marco provided. I can buy a lot of plastic for that much. They turned out real nice.

Got these out of the UK recently, reproduction, but will do the part instead of having a 500 quid extinguisher stolen from your vehicle.

Adrian, I might need a few brackets for the HAC, will check the spares to see, if not I might grab two anyway.

Isaah

You say 500 quid fire extinguisher? Ebay sale was 619 quid and it was empty at that - ouch!

See attached photo for one of the 3 genuine ones I have.

Adrian - can I please have some detailed photos of the buckle/retaining clamp device for the extinguisher mount?

Regards
Doug

I've seen two different styles of tops on these extinguishers, the normal tapered top version and a stepped top as per the attached. Does anyone know what the difference is? Is it just different manufacturers? I've seen both types detailed in the Daimler Armoured Car manuals that I have. I'm looking for the top part off one of these extinguishers (tapered version) if anyone has a spare one going.

I'll email you the drawings Doug.

As I will be needing two for the Sexton, I am thinking about doing a run of non functioning, reproduction methyl bromide extinguishers. The bottle will be turned from aluminum, and the nozzles will be turned from brass. I will need to do close to 20, as I can only but the aluminum in 20 foot lenghts, and it is $50 per foot. Cost will be around $325 CDN. each. If anyone is interested, let me know.

thanks, Perry

Any way to have the bottles spun? Solid aluminum is going to be heavy. Jesse.

I looked at doing them using PVC for the bodies and brass for the brass bits.

I used plastic. I think it was ptfe. All one piece, except for the nozzle, using the lathe and the milling machine. I had to make a sphere cutter first.