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-   -   Wanted: British Sand Channels (http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/showthread.php?t=30959)

Philippe Jeanneau 05-03-20 20:58

British Sand Channels
 
2 Attachment(s)
Hello all,

I am looking for a set of British sand channels, or worse case scenario (Marston mats) for my truck. I'm located in the U.S., so I know it will be next to impossible... :fry:Thank you.

Robin Craig 06-03-20 01:10

Phillipe I have PSP or Marston mat in various styles and lengths. Where in the US of A are you? I would bet you are not close to me.

I am in Ontario Canada,

yours for a low fee, send me your email as pictures wont load

Philippe Jeanneau 06-03-20 16:26

British Sand Channels
 
Hello Robin,

Much appreciate the reply... I am located in the Ft. Lauderdale/Pompano area; you're absolutely right, not close at all! but not impossible... This is my emai

Best regards,
Philippe

jack neville 06-03-20 22:15

Wouldn’t be hard to get them laser cut and folded if you can get specs.

Robin Craig 07-03-20 02:09

Phillipe,

I agree with Jack Neville. However, are the ones you show originals or reproductions?

I know my friend Peter Duggan with his Ford of Canada Lynx is lusting for sand channels and I honestly think if we can figure out the profile they can be made.

The ones you show are similar to others of that era and lack the diamon strengthening pieces that the Ferret ones have, with which I have more familiarity.

.

Philippe Jeanneau 07-03-20 06:24

British Sand Channels
 
5 Attachment(s)
Hello Jack/Robyn,

The ones shown in the photos above may be the closest to the original WWII British sand channels... For what I have seen of original photos (Attached) they're close; or rather seem to be spot on, so may be originals... But maybe someone with more knowledge on the subject can answer that...

I "borrowed" the photos from the net and know that the one person that may be able to answer our question or help with dimensions is Paul Lincoln from the UK... He has access to Mr. Knudsen's truck and could get the information...

In the meantime, we can just study some original photos and compare... Hope that, again there may be a strong interest by someone with the knowledge and resources to get some of these made since there seems to be enough interest out there...

Philippe Jeanneau 25-03-20 04:41

British Sand Channels
 
1 Attachment(s)
While looking for more information I came across this...

https://zerzura.me/long-range-desert-group/

And wonder if the sand channel would be for a smaller vehicle... Seems quite a bit narrower than one used for a 30 CWT truck...

David Dunlop 25-03-20 05:55

Based on the photos posted, Philippe, there are indeed two different sizes of wartime sand channels. The colourized photo shows the wide version. Note the large empty space on that set from the outer longitudinal edges of the channel and the outer rows of holes. Also where the upper edge stows and how the lower edge is situated below the top recess of the wheel well.

All other photos show a narrower channel with very little outer edge empty space and the channels when stowed, fit completely within the gap on the sides of the truck between the upper edge of the wheel well and the lower edge of the top reinforcing channel of the box.

Why there are two different versions is an interesting puzzle, but you at least now have proof they both exist and were both used in the same theatre, by the same type of vehicles. You are making progress.

David

Philippe Jeanneau 26-03-20 01:51

British Sand Channels
 
I couldn't agree more, there were many different size vehicles in the desert, so it would make sense that there would be different sizes available to correspond to their size and weight... Your observations are spot ot. There is no doubt there were different sizes available and finally we have proof... It is quite nice to see an original piece... A first!

David Dunlop 26-03-20 04:05

I would be inclined to err on the side of caution, Philippe.

All we know for certain, looking back at 75+ year old photos, is that two different size channels existed. Why, is very much still unknown. The other interesting thing here is that all these photos are of one type (weight class) of vehicle. That suggests both sizes could do the job for this one type of vehicle.

One possibility for this showing up could be the bigger channels came first. They worked but may have been heavy and difficult to work with. Or, smaller ones developed to save steel or costs.

What would be interesting at this point, would be to find photos of a different weight class of vehicle equipped with channels and see if two sizes show up there as well.

David

Ed Storey 26-03-20 15:00

Sand Channels
 
1 Attachment(s)
Field Marshal Alexander's car in the Canadian War Museum has some mounted on the back and it may be possible for someone to get permission to photograph and measure them once the museum reopens to the public. This is an old photograph from 10 years ago so I am not sure where this vehicle is currently located within the Lebreton Gallery

Attachment 112729

David Dunlop 26-03-20 17:10

Interesting photo, Ed.

I wonder if there is a correct way and an incorrect way to stow these channels on a vehicle?

On Alexander’s vehicle, the two channels are nested into each other and look at the big gap between them and the retaining bar that is supposed to secure them in place. At the very least they would make quite a noise sitting like that when the vehicle was on the move, if not get lost altogether.

When you look at the earlier photos posted, you see some vehicles where the two channels are cupped against each other and fit snugly into their stowage brackets in that manner. On the other vehicles, the channels are nested when stowed and have extra web straps added to hold them in place, with lots of extra space in the brackets.

Interesting.

David

Philippe Jeanneau 26-03-20 19:40

British Sand Channels
 
2 Attachment(s)
All very interesting points, and very happy to see another photo of the smaller channels... It totally makes sense that they would exist, as did the larger size. As to how to properly carry them without loss and having them rattle their way down the road is another matter...

I believe that we were trying to ascertain the original dimensions of the larger size channels... While looking for this answer, I thought that one big clue would be in this first photo... If you compare it to the diagram, these should be as wide as the distance between C and B in theory, except...

1- We don't know if the truck in the photo has the bed in the diagram...

2- We don't know width of the channeling that surrounds the box...

But could come close... The difference between C and B is 15-1/8 or 384.17 mm which might just be the ticket and what my friends Chuck, Bob and I came up with...

As for the length, somewhere in the 81" or 6.75' seems in proportion...

I know there are some out there, but someone willing to help has to come up with the information...

Hanno Spoelstra 27-03-20 18:54

4B1 body
 
2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Philippe Jeanneau (Post 267853)
1- We don't know if the truck in the photo has the bed in the diagram...

Yes we do - the diagram shows the general arrangement of the 4B1 body, which was designed for mounting on the Chevrolet 1533X2 truck.

Attachment 112756 Attachment 112755

Philippe Jeanneau 28-03-20 19:34

British Sand Channels
 
Absolutely beautiful job! Very good to see a reproduction this side of the pond!! The changes are minor, and the sheetmetal could very well be 12 gauge to make it manageable for one person...

Philippe Jeanneau 28-03-20 19:39

British Sand Channels
 
I think I am your first customer! and regarding shipping, Fastenal does a great job and very inexpensive compared to regular carriers... Luckily, there is one about 5 miles from my house...:)

Bob Carriere 28-03-20 23:25

Wonderful job...........
 
Hi Chuck

Will you share dimensions, width at the two folds, thickness, drilled or punched, etc. weight, length
May be the second customer once the borders are open again...........

Stay healthy

Michael R. 29-03-20 01:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philippe Jeanneau (Post 267923)
I think I am your first customer! and regarding shipping, Fastenal does a great job and very inexpensive compared to regular carriers... Luckily, there is one about 5 miles from my house...:)

Yes, outstanding... but only applicable in America and has a requirement for an American Social Security number as part of the shipping requirements.

Having the dimensions published, and/or cutting files allows local production in country of production currencies without shipping, duties and applicable fees.

Grant Bowker 18-04-20 14:02

Reproduction sand channel mentioned (with photos) on https://forums.g503.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=314807 listing was dated 3 Apr, marked as sold yesterday. It isn't stated what the builder's reference was.

Alex van de Wetering 19-04-20 00:01

Quote:

Reproduction sand channel mentioned (with photos)
It seems to me that the repro's I have seen are too "deep"...the originals seem much flatter. Or did multiple patterns exist?

Alex

Lynn Eades 19-04-20 01:03

Alex, maybe usage and tyre profiles changed them? In post #6 on the left they are more shallow than those on the right. The design looks like the angled outer edges would "hold" the sand in place as the weight pushed them down. They would have been designed to carry the weight with the "assistance" of the captive sand, and no more. As some would know, running a really low tyre pressure gives a much larger foot print and therefore much better traction. With time contraints, the load, and the available equipment, sometimes decisions would have been made against deflation.
Depending on how these were used would dictate the shape after some use.
Maybe the narrower square sided ones were just for cars?
I would think that when the truck ones were sitting on a flat surface, the center and both edges would be touching the ground or that the center would be just clear. Stacking and stowing would be easier.


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