MLU FORUM - Rare vehicles and unusual sightings in Dutch Liberation pictures

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Hanno Spoelstra

31-03-20 14:58

Half-a-CMP-trailer

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex van de Wetering (Post 257684)

It seems every soldier had a lot of "stuff" to move around in 1945......campers, caravans, roofracks, but also all sorts of trailers are seen in period pictures. Ever wondered what to do with half a CMP?

Picture 1 and 2: the rear end of a Chev, Ford or Dodge converted into a trailer. Amsterdam

This screenshot shows a similar conversion. Is it a 2B1 15-cwt body on the back half of a 15-cwt chassis? The wheels look larger. It is towed by a C15TA.

This picture was not taken in Holland, but during OPERATION GOLDFLAKE - the move of 1 Cdn Corps from Italy to North-West Europe, Feb-Mar 1945. So this trailer proably ended up in Holland.

Attachment 112928

David Dunlop

31-03-20 15:49

Hanno.

It almost looks like tie rods under the axle assembly on that trailer. A salvaged front end, or perhaps even an artillery axle?

David

Hanno Spoelstra

31-03-20 16:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Dunlop (Post 268052)

It almost looks like tie rods under the axle assembly on that trailer. A salvaged front end, or perhaps even an artillery axle?

David, well spotted!

It could indeed be a true "bitsa" made up from parts scrounged from the battlefield scrapheaps in Italy.

Alex van de Wetering

31-03-20 16:53

Well spotted Hanno! For a moment I thought.....wartime Sankey :D

Alex

Grant Bowker

31-03-20 17:16

I don't think it's a salvaged front axle - neither a differential housing nor the typical drop of a non driven axle (and not as heavy as the straight axle of a 3 ton CMP 4x2).

Hanno Spoelstra

31-03-20 18:56

Trailer tie rods

The tie rods may be mechanical brake linkages?

Grant Bowker

31-03-20 19:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra (Post 268066)

The tie rods may be mechanical brake linkages?

Based on the 15 and 20 CWT CMP trailer frames I've seen, the parking brakes are cable operated and the service brakes hydraulic (based on Ford parts same as CMP rear axles) so it would have to be a non-CMP sourced axle.
The trailer frame seems to have a reinforcement at the bend at the front of the body and may have an upward step toward the drawbar. Not standard CMP trailer features, does this suggest anything?

Hanno Spoelstra

31-03-20 20:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grant Bowker (Post 268071)

Grant, it is not a CMP trailer for sure. It is clearly made up from parts scrounged in Italy for the big trip North.

David Dunlop

31-03-20 22:09

What comes to mind with me for some reason, Hanno, is an ex-German 20 mm Quad Mount Trailer stripped down with a CMP box added, but the wheels look too large.

David

Hanno Spoelstra

31-03-20 22:34

Not a FlaK trailer

2 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Dunlop (Post 268080)

What comes to mind with me for some reason, Hanno, is an ex-German 20 mm Quad Mount Trailer stripped down with a CMP box added, but the wheels look too large.

Hmm... Sonderanhänger (l achs.) (Sd. Ah. 52). Indeed, don't think so, it sits lower.

Attachment 112936 Attachment 112937

Steve Guthrie

04-04-20 18:31

Bitsa trailers

4 Attachment(s)

A couple of interesting documents.
The first two are from 'Wait for the Wagon' by Arnold Warren. It's a history of the Royal Canadian Army Service Corps. These excerpts explain why units made their own trailers

The next are parts of the Manifest for the 5th Canadian Armoured Brigade Workshop and list all the vehicles it shipped from Italy to France in February 1944. Lots of unregistered trailers and some rather interesting vehicles too

Hanno Spoelstra

04-04-20 20:34

Very interesting info!

Thanks a lot for sharing, Steve.

Hanno Spoelstra

20-05-20 13:10

documents from the 5th Canadian Armoured Brigade RCEME Workshop

4 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Guthrie (Post 268230)

The next are parts of the Manifest for the 5th Canadian Armoured Brigade Workshop and list all the vehicles it shipped from Italy to France in February 1944. Lots of unregistered trailers and some rather interesting vehicles too

More documents from Steve:

Quote:

Here are a couple of really interesting documents from the 5th Canadian Armoured Brigade RCEME Workshop. They list vehicles (their own and other 1 Corps assets) which were sent from Italy to France in Feb 1945. Look at the number of types plus the number of unit built trailers, which did not have census numbers.

Attachment 114184 Attachment 114185

Attachment 114186 Attachment 114187

Hanno Spoelstra

20-05-20 13:15

documents from the 5th Canadian Armoured Brigade RCEME Workshop

5 Attachment(s)

Courtesy of Steve, part 2:

Quote:

Here are a couple of really interesting documents from the 5th Canadian Armoured Brigade RCEME Workshop. They list vehicles (their own and other 1 Corps assets) which were sent from Italy to France in Feb 1945. Look at the number of types plus the number of unit built trailers, which did not have census numbers.

Attachment 114188 Attachment 114189 Attachment 114190 Attachment 114191 Attachment 114192

Hanno Spoelstra

20-05-20 13:23

From Italy to Holland

2 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex van de Wetering (Post 257684)

Mike Calnan noted:

Quote:

Really hard to make out the markings on this one. Most likely artillery based on the hat badge of the young fella with the big grin! Some Gunner units used the M3 Scout Car as a Battery Reconnaissance vehicle. They were also a good size for a FOO vehicle. Drop the trailer in the hide and then move to a position of observation.

To which Mark Tonner replied:

Quote:

The vehicle belongs to one of the regiments of 1 Cdn AGRA, whose Arm of Service (AoS) serials were:
1 Cdn Med Regt - 181
2 Cdn Med Regt - 182
5 Cdn Med Regt - 180
11 Cdn Army Fd Regt - 184
all with a 2-inch white bar below
(Source: SD 4/Tpt/Veh Markings/5 - “Vehicle Serial Numbers CMF Units,” dated 7 April 1945)

----------------------------------------------------------------

And who knows, this could be the same White Scout plus makeshift trailer before the move from Italy to Holland?

Attachment 114193 Attachment 114194
Source: https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/i...ject/205538734

Alex van de Wetering

20-05-20 13:37

Steve, Hanno,

Thanks for adding these very interesting documents!!

Alex

Hanno Spoelstra

11-12-20 15:18

Another makeshift vehicle

1 Attachment(s)

Note the rear body of this 15cwt has been extended and heightened. It tows a trailer frame which could be a dolly?

Attachment 118126
Source: http://www.oorloginblik.nl/film/niod/2759771?

Hanno Spoelstra

12-05-21 17:33

1 Attachment(s)

So, what do we have here?

Attachment 121919
"Beschrijving: Meisjes in een Canadees militair kamp gelegen in de wijk Kralingen [vermoedelijk in het Park Rozenburg]. Datering: 10-05-1945 - 30-05-1945"

Source: https://hdl.handle.net/21.12133/A65D...6270D7CD429785

Hanno Spoelstra

10-12-21 22:00

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex van de Wetering (Post 257669)

Picture4: Makeshift Caravan in Groningen (just left of picture centre) source: http://beeldbankgroningen.nl/

Picture of the same column, viewed from the other side:

“Canadian Military Pattern F60 truck, towing a captured German trailer, with other vehicles at a crossroads in Northwest Europe, 9 April 1945. (Library and Archives Canada Photo, MIKAN No. 3205242)”

Attachment 126460

Hanno Spoelstra

14-12-21 22:09

Bedford Portee

2 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex van de Wetering (Post 257686)

More ex-german trailers

picture1; Bedford ex-portee towing an ex-German trailer in Utrecht: Source:https://beeldbankwo2.nl

Attachment 126517

John Rippingham is looking for this picture, but I cannot find it when I search for "bevrijding Utrecht" in the BeeldbankWO2.

I did find some other photos of it - I think it is the same truck with it's field modified cab:

https://beeldbankwo2.nl/nl/beelden/d...d-8162cc7f1850

https://beeldbankwo2.nl/nl/beelden/d...5-3168d2c182d0

And here is another Portee:
Attachment 126518
Source: https://beeldbankwo2.nl/nl/beelden/d...c-71ae4a1c1579

edstorey

14-12-21 22:30

Modified Bedford Portee

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra (Post 283963)

That is quite the rig, which is not surprising, as it is the Cooks vehicle.

Alex van de Wetering

14-12-21 23:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra (Post 283963)

John Rippingham is looking for this picture, but I cannot find it when I search for "bevrijding Utrecht" in the BeeldbankWO2.

Will see if I can find it Hanno. I might have made a mistake with the source!

EDIT:
I think the picture originated from the Utrechts Archief, and shared on BeeldbankWO2. However, it does indeed seem to have been removed from Beeldbankwo2.....but it's still online on the Utrechtsarchief website.

So....for Rippo:

https://hetutrechtsarchief.nl/beeldm...ws=1&page=1091

https://hetutrechtsarchief.nl/beeldm...ws=1&page=1089

https://hetutrechtsarchief.nl/beeldm...ows=1&page=447

https://hetutrechtsarchief.nl/beeldm...ows=1&page=423

https://hetutrechtsarchief.nl/beeldm...ws=1&page=1096

https://hetutrechtsarchief.nl/beeldm...ows=1&page=657

Hanno Spoelstra

15-12-21 09:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex van de Wetering (Post 283969)

Exellent, Alex! Thanks for sharing this. Some of the archives seem to take down some content, or minimise the resolution, while others are enlarging their scope and quality of content.

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