MLU FORUM - 1941 Ford V8 C11ADF Staff Car (11A-79)

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1941 Ford V8 C11ADF Staff Car (11A-79)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith Webb (Post 121789)

Apart from a CMP that would have to be one of the most beautiful things on four wheels.

Definitely :thup2:

Although it is a bit over-restored and fitted with the wrong wheels.

But I would not complain if I had it sitting in my garage!

Quote:

Sports & Classics of Monterey
Thursday, August 13, 2009 - Saturday, August 15, 2009

1941 Ford C11ADF Staff Car
LOT: 137

Estimate:
$100,000-$125,000 US
Chassis No. 11A502C
Offered Without Reserve
AUCTION RESULTS: Lot was Sold at a price of $71,500

Model C11 ADF. 95 bhp, 239.4 cu. in. Flathead V8 engine, three-speed manual transmission with Columbia rear end, solid front axle with transverse semi-elliptic leaf spring, full-floating live rear axle with longitudinal semi-elliptic leaf springs, four-wheel hydraulic drum brakes. Wheelbase: 114"

The United States did not enter World War II until December 8, 1941. However, sub rosa preparations had begun several years earlier, some efforts taking a circuitous route through Canada. As early as 1935, the British had laid the groundwork for a manufacturing base in their North American dominion. Ford of Canada began work on a military truck designed around a set of government specifications. Very quickly General Motors became involved and the result was the Canadian Military Pattern truck, or CMP, built by both companies. Like the early Jeeps developed for the U.S. Army, a common design was used, but each manufacturer supplied its own engines and drive trains. The vehicles were under test by 1939, and by the time the war in Europe heated up in 1940 full-scale production had begun. More than 400,000 were built through 1945.

For personnel transportation and general staff use, converted station wagons were employed, using a variant of the Ford passenger chassis. Two versions, a five-passenger and a seven-passenger, were constructed, using as a base the 1941 Ford V8, Model 11A. As with the CMP trucks, the construction was carried out by Ford of Canada. Bodies were the standard Iron Mountain station wagon type. The seven passenger car was built on a standard wagon chassis and suspension, but with the larger 95 hp Mercury engine. It had Fabrikoid upholstery, a type of artificial leather, and was equipped with blackout curtains, rifle clips, a map container, first aid kit, POW cans, a fire extinguisher and tools. The ignition was shielded for radio interference suppression.

The five-passenger car was a heavy duty version, also with the Mercury engine but using a full-floating rear axle from the one-ton truck line, suspended on longitudinal semi-elliptic leaf springs. An open drive shaft was used and the final drive ratio was 4.1 to 1. The front axle had heavy duty king pins and hubs. Off-road tires in the 9.00-13 size were fitted on special wheels to the six-lug hubs. The seven-passenger car was designated C11 AS, the five passenger nomenclatured C11 ADF, the “F” signifying right-hand drive. In addition to the British Army, many were supplied to other Commonwealth forces. They were later built in 1942 style, as the C21 ADF.

The British units had their heyday in North Africa, where some had hatches cut in the roof for observation purposes. Others, like that of Field Marshal Harold Alexander, had the top removed entirely. Alexander, who later became last British Governor General of Canada, was designated Commander-in-Chief of British forces in the Middle East in 1942. He had his staff car modified in Egypt, before becoming deputy to General Dwight Eisenhower, the Supreme Allied Commander, in 1943. That car is now in the Canadian War Museum at Ottawa.

It is not recorded just how many were built, but estimates fall in the 1,000 range. CMP trucks are quite common in the collector community, and occasionally they are still seen in civilian commercial use. In contrast, only about ten C11 ADFs are known to survive.

The body contours on Nick Alexander’s C11 ADF are excellent, as is the Iron Mountain wood body, its number dating from November 1940. The whole of it is painted in Olive Drab, and it is matched by an artificial leather top in the same color. The glass, all with Ford script, looks new. There is no brightwork, the entire vehicle being subdued with the flat-toned paint. The right headlamp is blanked off, the left fitted with a blackout shade. The only other exterior lights are at the rear, where twin military style blackout taillights are fitted. Bumpers front and rear consist of heavy channel iron. Replica military insignia have been affixed to the front.

As its nomenclature indicates, the car is right-hand drive, with the column shift lever extending to the left. The seats are upholstered in replica Fabrikoid, and the dashboard, including the plastic, repeats the Olive Drab paint of the exterior. A tilting table is attached to the back of the front seat so that an officer could sit in the second seat with maps spread out to command his troops in battle. The running boards are NOS and the correct steering wheel is that of the Deluxe 1941 station wagon, which was then the more basic of the two models offered.

The engine is painted in Olive Drab. The chassis and underbody are also in Olive Drab, and are clean. The exhaust system, which exits ahead of the left rear tire, looks new.16-inch rims have been mated to six-lug centers, and fitted with 7.50-16 LT truck tires.

The cargo area at the rear is covered by a parcel shelf, with a tool box underneath. The shelf tilts upward, revealing mounting for tools on the under side. When carried, a spare tire would be located beside the tool box.

Purchased from a Canadian collector in January 2004, this car was then subjected to a complete restoration. It is currently registered in California with license number 6GWL518.

Of the extant C11 ADFs, only four are known to have been restored. The car certainly represents a very rare opportunity to acquire a turn-key military vehicle emblematic of a fascinating part of World War II history.

C11AD Ford at auction

Of interest in a Tom Mack Auction on Dec. 2, 2017 in Birmingham Alabama is a C11AD Ford Station Wagon. Looks restored but I am not familiar with the details of this car. It does have US-style tail lights in the photos. Part of a larger car collection liquidation. This has to be a rare vehicle!

Here is a link to photos of the C11AD Ford Station Wagon

https://tommackclassics.com/50-1941-...y-staff-wagon/:

Brian

this car was on the block before a few years ago out of CA if I remember, 100K last time,

Really? 100K? Was that the asking price or the selling price? Or have you added one too many zeros on there.

Certainly a nice piece. Would be nice to see it come back to Canada.

I believe this was the same car. From back in 2009.

http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...789#post121789

Impressive selling price. It will be interesting to see what it gets this time around.

Has anyone seen a posted selling price for this C11AD that was sold at this auction? I have had not luck.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BCA (Post 245665)

Has anyone seen a posted selling price for this C11AD that was sold at this auction? I have had not luck.

No, sorry. The site does state that all cars in this auction were sold.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Gough (Post 245138)

Here is a link to photos of the C11AD Ford Station Wagon
https://tommackclassics.com/50-1941-...y-staff-wagon/:

For future reference:

Quote:

OLD CAR HEAVEN AUCTION VEHICLE
ALL VEHICLES WERE SOLD IN DECEMBER 2ND AUCTION.

#50-1941 Ford Military Staff Wagon

Model C11A
Army Green
Very rare “Woody” conversion Wagon, built in Canada for the British Military.
Right hand drive
Restored
Actual production numbers are unknown, but considered to be extremely rare.

Attachment 96334 Attachment 96335 Attachment 96336

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jordan Baker (Post 245145)

I believe this was the same car. From back in 2009.

Indeed, it must be the same. It looks it is fitted with 16" wheels, or do I see things wrong?

http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/at...5&d=1258167641

Plus the last three pictures:

Quote:

#50-1941 Ford Military Staff Wagon

Attachment 96337 Attachment 96338 Attachment 96339

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra (Post 245669)

Indeed, it must be the same. It looks it is fitted with 16" wheels, or do I see things wrong?

16 inch wheels would surely be correct? It was the C11ADF that had the 13 inch wheels and the heavier axles.

Just seen this post for the first time. It certainly appears to be the same vehicle that was sold about 2009 I think. If you look at the three quarter photo I have posted you can see it is fitted with the F8 rear axle, so assume semi-elliptical springs, which would make it ADF transmission configuration. Extended rear wheel arches also correct but it is should be on 900x13's although it appears to be on 16 inch wheels which have a strange centre. Interestingly one of the photos from the original sale collection shows the dash which is not fitted with the three auxiliary switches for Dash, Convoy and tail blackout which was standard on both the C11ADF and C11AS models? Is it genuine?

For clarification the C11AS (Special) was a military specification based on the 1941 C11A Ford Deluxe Station Wagon. (torque tube, standard axle and transverse spring) 16 inch wheels and was a seven seater. The C11ADF was fitted with F8 axle, prop shaft and semi-elliptical springs but still on standard car three speed box and column change and fitted with 900x13's.

Information I have indicates 235 C11AS's were produced, which included a few 42 model, and 633 C11ADF's , all shipped overseas. I am currently in the final stages of refurbishing a C11AS here in the UK.

Attachment 96396

Attachment 96397 Attachment 96398

Regarding the American rear lights mentioned, I would assume these have been fitted to provide stop/tail and indicator in a 'military' configuration.

Originally both models were fitted with a single early pattern rubber tail light on each side. I followed this original configuration but had to fit two each side to give all required road legal lighting.

Just noticed the auction vehicle is fitted with the wrong rear bumper. The C11AS was fitted with a bumper of the same profile as the front, which was to offer protection for the spare wheel and carrier. The C11ADF however was fitted with a straight bumper as the spare wheel was stowed in the rear body space. Tow /tie down rings were only fitted to the AS model.

Attachment 96399 Attachment 96400

Some photos via favcars dot com; looks like they got them from the RM Sotheby's auction catalogue. These are the only photo's I could find back on the internet, I am pretty sure at the time of auction there were many more on the RM Sotheby's auction site.

Attachment 132285 Attachment 132286 Attachment 132287 Attachment 132288 Attachment 132289

Ian McCallum wrote: "thought it may be the Nick Alexander example on seeing the wheels. Can't recollect any photos showing the underside but one of the dash did not show any auxiliary switches or data plate. Would have been nice to have known its history prior to restoration. The Nick Alexander’s dash, no auxiliary switches or data plate above speedo, as fitted to all contract ADF’s and AS’s and see on mine."

Attachment 132290

Ian McCallum noted “interesting in looking at the Chassis numbers I have managed to collect, including my own, they all follow the same sequence of 2D-xxxx-F which is completely different from that shown in the Auction details.”

So I get the impression this Station Wagon was not a C11ADF originally

Hanno.

In the last photo of your Post. #10, the wooden tool box in the trunk is actually the wooden tool box for a Wireless Set No. 52 Canadian, painted up the same colour as the vehicle by the looks of it.

David

I stand corrected, Hanno.

The lid on this tool box sits a lot deeper than the one for the 52-Set. Same overall design, however.

David