What do we see here? 3-ton trucks with GS body moved forward
 

Please ID the trucks in this photo. (The one on the right is easy.)

Attachment 122963
Picture courtesy of Brendan O’Carroll

Interesting, Hanno, that the CMP in the foreground is running sand tires while still retaining its factory original chevron tread spare.

David

I see 4 CMP F30s, with stripped down 11/12 Cabs for cooling.

I would say LRDG Patrol trucks, but I haven't seen the spare tyre mounted to the side like that before.

F30s? Or are these are 158” w.b. 3-ton trucks with roofless Cab 13 and the GS body moved forward with the spare wheel fitted to the side of the body?

Attachment 122965

I would say LWB F60L's, but I am with Tony that I are most likely cab 12's...but I am not putting any money on it, as there is something strange about the trucks.

Cab 13's have the front part of the fenders fitted to the front clip....so, if the clips are removed, than you can't fit the front part of the fender. But the picture does show full fenders. Or do the trucks in the picture retain the cab13 front clips, and were the sides cut out of them???

What about the GS bodies? Is that a drop shadow under the top edge of the body......or did someone cut holes in the sides? I think Hanno's is right that the bodies have been move forward, but I understand the design of the long wheelwells allowed the bodies to either be fitted with, or without, the spare wheel carrier.

It's certainly a fascinating picture, Hanno!

I don't like having to refer to scale models to depict a vehicle, but they do show the vehicle well: F30. Note that the model has 2 toolboxes under the front of the tray, the photo trucks only have 1 toolbox and a POL rack, making the rear wheel arch appear longer.

The clue to being a 30cwt is the rear tailshaft visible on the vehicle on the far right; 134wb has a gentle slope from the rear diff to the transfer case, the 158wb has a steep angle to a bearing block in between.

I think I see the side of the 3-ton GS body with the four sections and the wheel well cover covering the third and part of the fourth section. Compare with these pics:

Attachment 122975 Attachment 122973 Attachment 122974

Or do you see the Sand Channel moved rearward to make space to mount the spare wheel?

And when are you going to tell us the source of the photo?

A sand channel can be fitted, yes. Don’t you see the four side sections? I will view it again on a large screen. There’s definitely something modified.

Pic comes from Brendan O’Carroll, have asked him if he has a better scan.

Attachment 122977

I agree.....and a sand channel fitted onto the outside of the wheel well. I think I also see 20inch wheels, so I am still going for an F60L.

I played with the contrast and color a bit and agree they are 20" wheels. The dish of the wheels are the giveaway. As well, if you look at the diameter of the spare compared to the 3 ton cargo box, the tires are much higher than a 16" tire would be.

Hard to understand why they would go to all the trouble to remove the spare tire carrier and move the box forward. The weight saving is negligible.

Remember not all CMPs had spares
 

Hi Rob

I understand it that not all CMPs were equipped with spares if they had RUN FLAT tires, I have some 10:50x20 and 10:50x16 with dates from 1941 and 1942 marked RF4 which are extremely heavy and have thick side walls. I remember reading that trucks with the Run Flats only every 3rd or 4th truck would originally carry be equipped with spare.

Now I'll have to go back through the handbooks and Bill Greggs books for the source of the information.

Now back to these trucks equipped sand tires which were by nature much softer and subject to puncture, carrying a spare or two would be logical.

As to removing the hood and side panels to help cool the engines. While it might help with engine cooling it sure does not help with cooling the driver or co-driver. I've driven my Pattern 12 in 90F+ air temperatures with out the side hood panels and it was miserable. Same temps with panels and hood on doors open on the hooks and the windscreen open halfway was semi tolerable. No doubt in my mine Patter 13 is much better.

But even the Pattern 13 in 80-90F temperature the air in the drivers footwell can hit 124F+. I now have a thermometer under the dash to remind me when it is getting to hot. The truck is fine I'm the one passing out from the heat.


Cheers Phil

I forget which of the LWB bodies it is, but at least one (likely more) was designed with long wheelhousings to permit mounting either forward without a spare tire carrier or rearward with one.
Agreed about 20" wheels, obvious on the 13 cab in the foreground and a bit less so on the 11/12 cab in the background. I think the background trucks are most likely 11/12 cab based on the positioning if the post at the front of the door and general proportions of the truck nose but am not good enough to tell if Ford or Chev on any of the trucks.

From my time working in Kandahar, I doubt it would make a whole lot of difference wrt the heat from the engine being blown towards the driver. During the summer there, any breeze or wind felt like standing in front of a Herman Nelson heater. At least it helped evaporate some of the sweat. 90° would be a very cool day there in the summer time.

Righto
 

Four 11/12 Cabs.

Wheelbase 134 inch either 30cwt or 60S? (I think they made 12's in S configuration... happy to be corrected). Definitely 20 inch rims.

My line of logic for the 60L body would be for more cargo area. When youre out in the desert... I would think any extra room for water/ammunition in a forward area would be invaluable.

Place a spare around the side and youre good to go.

Seeing this F60L in Dutch civilian postwar service working on the beach reminded me of this thread.

It offers a good view of what the 3-ton GS body looks like sitting more forward after the spare wheel holder behind the cab was removed.

I am now convinced these are 158” w.b. 3-ton trucks with roofless Cab 11 or 12 and the GS body moved forward with the spare wheel fitted to the side of the body.

Attachment 132894

"We've got him!"
 

And I am now pretty sure the LRDG Heavy Section did not alter the body, but that these trucks were delivered as such:

Attachment 132921 Attachment 132920

“Somewhere in the desert between Egypt and Libya”
 

Two photos of a Cab 13 3-tonner with its GS body moved forward.
Notice the spare wheel holder dangling from the left hand side of the GS body.

Attachment 137388 Attachment 137389

Source:
Attachment 137390

More photos of this 3-tonner. Note the spare wheel holder is being moved around every now and then.


Alan Hall, 2010:
Attachment 137423


Toby Savage, April 2012:
Attachment 137424

Dear all,

Interesting enough one can find pictures of LRDG Ford F30 (I think also here on MLU), where the body has been moved BACK (for better weight distribution over the rear wheels?) allowing for a spare wheel behind he cab.

Cheers, Martin

Hi Martin,

Indeed, the LRDG modified (some of) their F30s. The body was moved back to improve the weight distribution for driving in the desert.

Re. these 3-ton trucks, I am pretty sure the LRDG Heavy Section did not alter the body, but that these trucks were delivered as such.