Carriers and WD numbers question
 

Is it possible to determine the mark of a carrier based on it's WD number? Are certain blocks of numbers associated with Marks I and II, or something even more in depth?

Anyhow, here is a list of numbers compiled from some of the War Diaries found at the Heritage site:

8th Cdn Recce
CT-42930 Feb.1942
CT-28879 Feb.1942
CT-28856 Feb.1942
CT-28935 Feb.1942
CT-28870 Feb.1942
CT-28915 Feb.1942
CT-28905 Feb.1942
CT-28902 Oct.1942
CT-28850 Nov.1942
CT-43438 Mk I Feb.1943
CT-43488 Mk I Feb.1943
CT-43288 Mk I Feb.1943
CT-43211 Mk I Feb.1943
CT-43232 Mk I Feb.1943

27th Cdn Army Tank Regt. (Sherbrooke Fusilieres)
CT-55095 Carrier Universal Ford Aug.1943
CT-55704 Carrier Universal Ford Aug.1943
CT-55796 Carrier Universal Ford Aug.1943
CT-55799 Carrier Universal Ford Aug.1943
CT-55914 Carrier Universal Ford Aug.1943
CT-56097 Carrier Universal Ford Aug.1943
CT-56101 Carrier Universal Ford Aug.1943
CT-56107 Carrier Universal Ford Aug.1943
CT-56122 Carrier Universal Ford Aug.1943
CT-56137 Carrier Universal Ford Aug.1943

CT-131177 Carrier start & charge Aug.1943
CT-131199 Carrier start & charge Aug.1943
CT-131201 Carrier start & charge Aug.1943
CT-131205 Carrier start & charge Aug.1943

CT-136032 Carrier TCP Lloyd Mk II Aug.1943
CT-136083 Carrier TCP Lloyd Mk II Aug.1943
CT-136159 Carrier TCP Lloyd Mk II Aug.1943

--------------------------------
(note: below all passed down to sister regt. 1st Hussars)
T-8464 Mar.1943
T-8558 Mar.1943
T-8562 Mar.1943
T-13605 Mar.1943
CT-43026 Mar.1943
CT-43601 Mar.1943
T-13334 Mar.1943
T-13416 Mar.1943
T-13438 Mar.1943
T-13442 Mar.1943
T-8837 Mar.1943
T-10813 Mar.1943
CT-55805 Mar.1943
CT-55806 Mar.1943

First Cdn Army
T-8525 Ford Carrier Bren MG Jan.1944

Jack, in your last listed batch:
10813 is a Wolesley MkI U.C.
43026 and 43601 are Canadian MkI U.C.s
All the rest are Thornycroft MkI U.C.
Info from Vol I, Nigel Watson's great set of books.

You can be pretty sure that all your listed Canadian Carriers are (or were) MkI U.C.s because the MkIIs never came along until about number 112,000.
THe first batch of Loyds were built by Dennis. These were MkIs. The last 3 built by MB Wild, were MkIIs.
The Loyds were all British built.

Hi Lynn, thank you very much for the detailed response. :thup:

Don't suppose there is anything on the internet that approaches the detail of those Nigel Watson books?


regards,
Jack

Sorry Jack, I don't know.

Nigel's UC book set
 

There is a set of Nigel's books available via ABE Books ....

https://www.abebooks.com/servlet/Sea...rsal&sortby=17

Just have to sell your first born to afford them, that's all!! :giveup

Mike

Better get cracking then, I've no first born as of yet.

Seriously though, would this be worth considering:
http://robvanmeel.nl/?q=content/b-ve...-manufacturers

Ultimately, am searching for a census number from the support company in the Algonquin Regiment, specifically 3" mortar carrier. Though I have a feeling the best I can do is probably just find numbers that it would not be.

regards,
Jack

Books
 

"Universal Carriers Volume 3 - Sorry - This product is not currently available and cannot be added to the basket" :(

Have not heard for a long while from Nigel, BTW.

H.

Can you give us some more details about what you are researching?
If the Algonquin Regt. 3” mortar carrier was Canadian factory made, the known available WD numbers cover a relatively small range over a few CDLV contracts.

Hello Michael, thank you for your interest.

Not sure what more I can add, other than I'm looking at NE Europe 1944-45 time frame. According to the August 1943 War Establishment, each infantry battalion should have it's own support company. It is here where is found the 3" mortar carrier platoon, and would contain 7 vehicles, according to this pdf file:

http://www.warestablishments.net/Can...ust%201943.pdf

Other than that, any info that can be added would go towards the building of a 1/35 scale model.


regards,
Jack

If the Algonquin Regt experience in NWE ‘44-‘45 was similar to other Canadian infantry regiments, you may find images of mortar carriers that show the ‘operational’ customized examples. There are images available of factory built 3” mortar carriers on MK-I* chassis in use before and after June 6th, 1944.

Some main differences of note from standard MK-I* or updated MK-I* to MK-II:
no firing rests, no smoke discharger, no 2” mortar, no AA pole socket mounts, no BREN, PIAT or Boys brackets or mounts of any description.

Relocation of rations stowage box. No armoured wireless battery box. No wireless radio mounts, antenna bases or installed accessories. No small arms ammunition containers or ‘break-out’ pouch brackets and straps.

The Canadian factory 3” mortar carriers were enhanced/customized in the field with welded equipment storage frames in addition to the mounting bases for attaching deep fording plates when so equipped. Dare I apply the term: “operational” ?

I would feel pretty safe using the CT series of WD numbers for 3” mortar carriers, some examples are shown in the following images and single shipping document. Some known range of Canadian made 3” mortar carrier numbers: CT-113991-114026 (36); CT-162911-163910 (1,000); CT-201801-202100 (300)

Michael, now that is a gold mine of info you have provided, really appreciate that.

On seeing the photo of the two carriers, the first one has a tactical marking within which is M5. The numbering does seem to indicate M represents the 3rd platoon, while 5 represents the fifth vehicle as set out in this document:

http://heritage.canadiana.ca/view/oo...88/536?r=0&s=5
Attachment 110249

So far so good, as the CanadianSoldiers site also illustrate the 3" carrier mortar being the no.3 platoon:
https://www.canadiansoldiers.com/tac...ybattalion.htm

What's throwing me is the tactical marking in the photo is in the shape of a HQ unit. So essentially the support company is an HQ unit (with it's own HQ) found within the Company HQ of the battalion.

regards,
Jack

Vehicle Markings
 

What you have to remember is that the markings evolved over time so what was written in earlier documents may not apply latter on.

Michael, do you have any evidence Mk.I carriers were ever updated to Mk.II? For sure Mk.I hulls were adapted as factory supplied Mk.II carriers (all the Mk.I bits were never installed and the holes riveted shut) but I've never heard of a finished Mk.I being so updated.

Yes, I do.

Ok so next question, within all those Mk.I conversions to Mk.II, do you think a bunch of them are to Mk.II 'Welsh Guard" stowage and not necessarily a Mk.II mortar carrier?

I suggest most of the MK-I* conversions performed in the U.K. were to MK-II UCW specification.

There are British documents that show MK-I carriers being converted to mortar carriers ... but the details appear to show they are British production carriers being converted to 3” Mortar carrier.

Am I chasing my tail and somehow investing hours of work to support a point I have overlooked?