MLU FORUM - Kangaroo Photos wanted

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- The Armour Forum (http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=7)

- - Kangaroo Photos wanted (http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/showthread.php?t=3573)

Hanno Spoelstra

14-04-07 10:59

1 Attachment(s)

Another "Kangaroo" pic, although I think this is actually a Gun Tower, given the towing hook attachment on the rear.

Attachment 72533

http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data/820/ph325.jpg

Hanno Spoelstra

16-04-07 11:33

From missing-lynx.com:

Quote:

In ATB 135 (the most recent one available in the US) "The Capture of Bremen", Pg 30, there is an IWM photo of a Ram Kangaroo. It is hard to make out the name but it appears to be "CHINCER" or "CHINGER" (CHAUCER?).

I don't have that issue yet, as the Dutch edition is about two years behind the English one.

Marco C.

18-04-07 16:26

Hello this Picture was made in the Hochwald at Uedem thats not so far from my Home

Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)

18-04-07 17:14

Quote:

Originally posted by Marco C.
Hello this Picture was made in the Hochwald at Uedem thats not so far from my Home

Can you come up with a "now" picture for comparison? :)

Marco C.

18-04-07 18:56

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally posted by Geoff Winnington-Ball
Can you come up with a "now" picture for comparison? :)

Oh Yes i can make a Picture like than and now

I can Take a Picture at Kranenburg too
http://jeep.cfasp.de/upload/406786.jpg

Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)

18-04-07 20:41

Quote:

Originally posted by Marco C.
Oh Yes i can make a Picture like than and now

I can Take a Picture at Kranenburg too

OK, Marco, the ball's in your court.... :)

BTW, the Kranenburg pics are of the British 49thAPCR, but they're good lads too (I know some, and they're a part of 'the family').

Marco C.

29-04-07 13:45

2 Attachment(s)

@Geoff Winnington-Ball

here the Pictures from Kranenburg Today

http://jeep.cfasp.de/upload/417865.jpg

Here the Road from Kranenburg to Wyler

http://jeep.cfasp.de/upload/417870.jpg

The Pictures from the Hochwald come Later

RWDiesel

24-02-08 17:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by servicepub (Post 93652)

I am looking for additional photos of the Ram, in all of its variants, in order to update www.RamTank.ca

All photos are gratefully received although I am especially interested in photos that show the CT number or the DND Registration number.

I have some information on a Kangaroo, i found a picture on your site in the ramphotos section.
The Kangaroo named "Phyllis" turns up in a number of publications about the Liberation of Groningen NL, i scanned the ones i could find and tried to give a translation on the text, further i scanned the pictures i found.
I hope this is of use to you, since i like what you did so far on your site, maybe i can help a little by giving you this information.
The author of the publications, is M.H.Huizinga who also wrote a book named Maple Leaf Up fitting isn't it.
Here are the scans i made:

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/6...en01vc6.th.jpg http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/9...en02sc2.th.jpg http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/8...en03cf7.th.jpg http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/3...en04kf7.th.jpg http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/5...ok01eq2.th.jpg http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/1...ok02rr3.th.jpg http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/5...ok03tw9.th.jpg http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/2...sp01ia0.th.jpg

Greetings, Ronald.

Hanno Spoelstra

02-03-08 22:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by RWDiesel (Post 94284)

The Kangaroo named "Phyllis" turns up in a number of publications about the Liberation of Groningen NL

Ronald, thanks for your contribution!

Here's are some more scans re. "Phyllis" at the Coehoornsingel, Groningen.

Regards,
Hanno

http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data...bs/Phyllis.jpg http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data.../pag_28-29.jpg http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data...mbs/pag_43.jpg http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data.../pag_66-67.jpg

sapper740

09-03-08 07:22

4 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by servicepub (Post 27666)

I need Kangaroo photos!!!

Don't know if you already have these but here goes:

Pic 1: technical drawing
pic 2: 1st variant
pic 3: 2nd variant
pic 4: 3rd variant

I hope they are of use to you. Derek.

Hanno Spoelstra

09-03-08 16:58

1 Attachment(s)

Photo caption: "The Canadians in Varsseveld". From: Dr. L. De Jong, De Bezetting na 50 jaar (deel 3). (Apologies for the bad quality.)

Hanno Spoelstra

07-01-09 15:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by sapper740 (Post 95130)

Pic 1: technical drawing.

More precisely, a stowage sketch. And here is a larger version of it.

http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data...aldrawings.jpg

Hanno Spoelstra

17-10-12 00:33

1 Attachment(s)

Have we seen this one before?

http://proxy.handle.net/10648/ac0647...8-003048976d84

One from a series taken near Enschede and Hengelo in April 1945.

H.

Bill Miller

17-10-12 01:05

Yup.

Hi Hanno, if you refer back to posts #112-124 of this thread you'll see this photo as part of a series.

However, my original attribution in '06 of this to 'B' Squadron was incorrect. Those photos have since been positively identified as A Squadron, 4 Troop. Taken sometime in early April before the attack Groningen. Exact location is still unknown.

The Lieut. Standing, centre foreground is unidentified, but may be either Lieut. Gordon or Bell? The black beret seated on the edge of turret ring directly behind him is Lieut. John Campbell (one of our Toronto regulars until his passing in the spring of 2011).

Hanno Spoelstra

21-10-12 22:27

2 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Miller (Post 171483)

However, my original attribution in '06 of this to 'B' Squadron was incorrect. Those photos have since been positively identified as A Squadron, 4 Troop. Taken sometime in early April before the attack Groningen. Exact location is still unknown.

The Lieut. Standing, centre foreground is unidentified, but may be either Lieut. Gordon or Bell? The black beret seated on the edge of turret ring directly behind him is Lieut. John Campbell (one of our Toronto regulars until his passing in the spring of 2011).

Hello Bill,

Thanks, after posting the photo I had a closer look and found Mark posted the very same photo in post #123. Good to hear more information has come to light on these photos.

The Lieut. standing centre foreground, in my opinion, is not Lieut. Bell? Compare with the wartime picture of Art Bell I instered for comparison.

Judging by their shoulder flash the soldiers sitting on the Kangaroo, no. 1 and 2 from the right, are Netherlands Army soldiers.

Regards,
Hanno

Bill Miller

22-10-12 01:03

Too many Bell's...

Hi Hanno,

I didn't think the fellow was Art either. Keep in mind Art was a Trooper. :) The Regiment had three members with the surname Bell. Trooper John Bell (A Sqn Gunner Op.), Trooper Art Bell (RHQ Clerk and our dear departed friend) and then a Lieut. John G Bell.

I have been able to come up with positively ID'd photos for 47 of the 53 Officers that passed through the Regiment and L.A.D., in my estimation Lieut's Bell or Gordon were the most likely candidates for this unidentified officer.

Yes, the two fellows on the right of the turret ring are Dutch Free Forces. With so many clues in this series of photos, I've been trying to come up with a Diary reference to better date and locate this photo, but haven't been able to... yet. :D

Hanno Spoelstra

26-10-12 09:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Miller (Post 171652)

I didn't think the fellow was Art either. Keep in mind Art was a Trooper. :) The Regiment had three members with the surname Bell. Trooper John Bell (A Sqn Gunner Op.), Trooper Art Bell (RHQ Clerk and our dear departed friend) and then a Lieut. John G Bell.

Of course, I didn't think of that :doh:

Quote:

I have been able to come up with positively ID'd photos for 47 of the 53 Officers that passed through the Regiment and L.A.D., in my estimation Lieut's Bell or Gordon were the most likely candidates for this unidentified officer.

Excellent job, giving a name to almost each and every face!

Quote:

Yes, the two fellows on the right of the turret ring are Dutch Free Forces. With so many clues in this series of photos, I've been trying to come up with a Diary reference to better date and locate this photo, but haven't been able to... yet. :D

Will ask if any of the Princes Irene Brigade experts know where & when the pic was taken.

H.

Eric Heijink

12-01-13 19:14

1 CARC A Squadron then and now photo

1 Attachment(s)

Hello Bill,

I saw your post about the school in Enschede. I am new on this forum.
The school is located in Glanerbrug, a village close to Enschede. And it is still there.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-I...adron-2012.jpg

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Miller (Post 48764)

:eek:

I wonder if this location has changed much in 60+ years. It would a good subject for a "then and now". I also wonder if the school house where the Regt. was billeted is still standing? It has rather unique architecture. Photo attached.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-e...a_squadron.jpg

kevinT

12-01-13 22:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra (Post 72750)

Another "Kangaroo" pic, although I think this is actually a Gun Tower, given the towing hook attachment on the rear.

http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data/820/ph325.jpg

That seems to be an unusual arangement on that half track more or less top centre of the picture. It seems to be some sort of board or canvas sheet. Is that to make it look like a lorry? Not seen that before.

cheers
Kevin

chrisgrove

15-01-13 13:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Miller (Post 48795)

Attached photo detail of the front of two trucks (one an armoured truck), shows the "Bullshead" 79th Armd Div sign and 31 Tk. Diablo, the right Fender of the Armd Truck has an unusual "157" AoS. It is inside some sort of maple leaf shape?

157 is reported by Peter Hodges renowned book on markings as being 1 CACR. But I expect everyone knew that!

Chris

Hanno Spoelstra

04-02-13 23:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Heijink (Post 174434)

Eric,

Excellent then & now picture! Bill will be thrilled to see this, but as far as I know he's busy with other stuff now so we'll have to wait untill he chimes in.

Hanno

Hanno Spoelstra

04-02-13 23:54

1 Attachment(s)

Have we seen this one before?

Quote:

Kangaroos of the Canadian Army formed up after the Battle of Wanssum in the Netherlands, 1945.

Photograph by Major W H J Sale, MC, 3rd/4th County of London Yeomanry (Sharpshooters), World War Two, North West Europe, 1945.
The Kangaroo was a Canadian armoured personnel carrier (APC) based on a converted tank chassis. The majority of vehicles converted were Canadian Ram tanks or Shermans. The armoured Kangaroo gave infantry more protection than the standard Commonwealth Bren Carrier and thus proved more suitable for infantry units accompanying tanks into battle.
From an album containing 222 photographs compiled by Major W H J Sale, MC, 3rd/4th County of London Yeomanry (Sharpshooters).
NAM Accession Number

NAM. 1975-03-63-21-105

maple_leaf_eh

05-02-13 03:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevinT (Post 174436)

For a time, the commander of 1 Canadian Division in Kingston (recent modern times) had a GMC Suburban as his rover. The rest of the troops had 5/4 ton trucks. I saw it once, and was struck by the odd roof rack. It was high tubular framing. It occured to me that his driver could mask the passenger vehicle with a cargo truck tarp. Same profile and otherwise indistinguishable.

Maybe the half-track crew / commander had the same thing in mind?

maple_leaf_eh

02-03-13 04:33

WWII in color (sic)

http://www.ww2incolor.com/canada/

There are some Ram photos here, don't know if they have already been posted.

Hanno Spoelstra

27-04-15 21:20

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roddy1011 (Post 50760)

I have been sorting out the mass of paper that always seems to clutter the place. This morning I stumbled on a letter that was sent to me back in June 1996. This was from a former soldier of the 2nd Ox & Bucks LI, fighting through Holland:

'...we were travelling in Kangaroos in the advance on Winterswijk in Holland on Good Friday (30/3/44). We were in 12 Kangaroos when we came up against 'fallschirmjaeger' of the 7th Fsj Division at 'Het Woold', about 5 kms from Winterswijk. As this was a somewhat new squadron of Kangaroos, they pulled up in a straight row on a road with a deep ditch on both sides. Instead of leaving room for manoeuvering, they parked nose to tail.

'A solitary German 'Sturmgesutz' commanded by one Leutnant Heinz Deutsch, holder of the 'Ritterkreuz', commenced to shoot up the Kangaroos as if it were a turkey shoot. From a total of 12 Kangaroos and two tanks, he hit one tank and eight Kangaroos. We suffered about 14 dead and and nearly 20 wounded. The dead are buried an the cemetary at Winterswijk, along with one member of the RAC who was killed at the same time and one member of the HLI who was killed the next day when we entered Winterswijk.

'I personally met with Lt Heinz Deutsh for the first time at his home in Kelkheim, near Frankfurt in 1990. We became very good friends but sadly he died last October [Oct 95] after a long illness. He was also part of the 7th Fsj Div, "Sturmgeschutzebrigade 12". This division was only formed in the Autumn 44, under the command of the Generalleutnant Erdmann, who after the war killed himself in a British POW Camp. Between the Maas and the Rhine, Heinz Deutsch destroyed 35 Allied armoured vehicles...'

Still from colorized video on youtube, shot at 't Woold.

"Liberation Route East Holland in full-color - April 1945"
https://youtu.be/zgiqBwVWcKk

Note the name "TARANTULA"

Attachment 73029

H.

Hanno Spoelstra

27-04-15 21:25

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra (Post 42120)

Temporary graves after "the battle for 't Woold".
http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data/820/t_Woold1.jpg

Another shot of the same Kangaroo, from the facebook page of Oud Woold:

Attachment 73030

Plus one more then & now picture.

H.

tankmodeler

27-04-15 22:06

Hanno,

Wow! Great photos and showing very interesting details on each. The colour still shows a Kangaroo, but with at least two grab bars welded to the hull as visible in the photo. Normal wisdom has it that these were only on the Wallaby ammo carriers, but apparently at least some Brit 'Roos had them added in the field.

The B&W photos show what had to be an absolutely rare beast, A Kangaroo made from a Ram with the Wright version of the radial engine (the external mufflers are the giveaway). Given that these needed 100 Octane gas, they would have been a bear to find gas for in the field with everything else using 87 octane. Would not have thought any were converted to 'Roos for that reason, especially given the supply situation in late 44.

Thanks for posting them!

Paul

David Herbert

28-04-15 12:04

Paul,
Yes you are quite correct, the above Ram is one of the first 247 that were built with the Wright R975/EC2. The exhaust and air cleaner arrangement changed at the same time as the change to Continental R975/C1 engines. However by that point in the war it is very likely that tanks of this age that had mostly been used for training in the UK, would have had the engine changed, possibly more than once. It would be very easy to exchange the exhaust manifolds as the fittings are all the same. No change would be needed to the inlet side as the carb is externaly identical so the intake pipes would plug straight on. One of the good things with this family of engines is that many parts are interchangeable across different versions so engines could be updated to some extent.

David

tankmodeler

28-04-15 13:20

David,

I certainly would have thought that the engines would have been changed, but I thought one of the reasons that the exhausts came inside and the air cleaners went outside was that the arrangements of the piping were different enough that the changes had to be made. I know that Rams in Canada that were built with the Wright and later changed to the Continental all had the air cleaners and exhausts relocated with plugs welded into the holes in the rear engine plate.

We'll probably never know, of course, but in any case these would be special vehicles with special maintenance needs and thus are interesting to see in the field.

Paul

David Herbert

28-04-15 19:17

Paul,
The tanks in the UK with plugs welded into the exhaust holes in the rear plates are vehicles after Shop number 247 that were BUILT with the later exhaust arangement but were using up stocks of the earlier plates, which had been fully machined and at that point in the war could not be wasted. There must have been quite a few of these as I have seen at least six on ranges in the UK including tanks without side doors. It was much more common on (I think) the LH plate than the RH (could have been the other way round) so there were tanks with one side with a welded hole but the other plain. Relatively late in the war the early Rams being used for training in Canada were remanufactured with various late fittings. I have not seen how the exhaust openings in the rear plate were plugged but the 'production' ones were pieces of plate the same thickness as the main plate, welded in flush from both sides. When painted they probably would not show in photos at all.

In terms of the exhaust and inlet fittings on the actual engines, R975/EC2 and C1s are identical. It is only the exhaust manifolds that are different, and then only to line up with the different type of mufflers. They are entirely interchangeable. The early arangement was intended to keep all the parts under armour. When it was decided that access for maintainence and better (bigger) aircleaners were more importaint the latter design was adopted. Although it happened at the same time as the change from EC2 to C1 it need not have done though as the C1s were supplied with the later manifolds it was obviously better to make the change then.

David

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