H4903314, to be precise. Can anyone confirm this is a Morris-Commercial Quad, please?

What type of vehicle could this be? Ford 60-cwt?

White M3A1 Scout Car.

Another picture from the NIOD beeldbank. What type of vehicle is this?

Fordson
 

Similar to one Bevan Fenner owned here in Austrlaia - I saw it recently at Len Watkin's place.

Rogier,

It is a Ford WOA2 4x2 Heavy Utility, listed as a "Ford Utility WOA2" in the list of PIB vehicles you posted.

Thank you Hanno!

The one with the 25pdr is a Morris Commercial C8 number 5 body Quad same as mine. :thup:

Another Bedford MW in Dutch service. From the material available, I deduct this Bedford with the sign "Radio Omroep Herrijzend Nederland" was probably the vehicle used by a certain Mr. Robert Kiek, a special reporter who joined the Irene Brigade. His reports were first broadcasted via emergency radio sets of Radio Brussel. Once the Southern part of the Netherlands was liberated a radio set built by Philips at Eindhoven was used. Broadcasting there started on 3 October 1944 and lasted until January 1946.

Pics come from http://geschiedenis.vpro.nl/artikelen/34538521/ and http://beeldbank.nationaalarchief.nl/na:col1:dat244633.

Attachment 23100 Attachment 23101


The pic of one restored as this Bedford comes from www.armymotorcars.com.

Attachment 23102

At beeldbankwo2.nl I found some more pictures. Image numbers 72467, 72468 and 141139. The second one shows a partial census number "Z5253".

Attachment 23158

Another piece of the Artillery Tractor puzzle:
http://www.haagsebeeldbank.nl/zoeken...eld/bevrijding

Rier view of a FAT, census number H5558308. I thought that solved it, but then I read this:

"H 5558176 - 5558375 / SM 2546 / Tractor 4x4 F.A. / C291Q / F-GT

However HISTORIC MILITARY VEHICLES DIRECTORY P. 52 has a photo of a Chevrolet FAT marked up as ‘H5558307’!"

(see: http://www.btinternet.com/~gmhistorian/fordlist.htm )

Any thoughts?

H5558308
 

Rogier,

Nice find and no worries. The picture David refers to is actually depicting a restored Chevrolet CGT which had a known PIB census number off a Ford FGT applied. I think I pointed this out before, must have been on the old forum.

Hanno

Attachment 33059
Ref: http://www.haagsebeeld
bank.nl/hga:col1:dat327858


Edited to add larger scan:
Attachment 117730
Source: https://haagsgemeentearchief.nl/medi...0-b85fd4c4c3b6

Thanks for the clarification Hanno, so we are indeed dealing with a Ford in the Haags archief foto?

I'm on the search for more pics now and found this. It's a vehicle of the Dutch troops as well. Any thoughts on the vehicle type would be appreciated.

Source: http://www.haagsebeeldbank.nl/hga:col1:dat298428

From this angle I cannot see features to identify it as a Ford or Chevrolet. But based on the known census number range, it is a Ford FGT.

Great find! It looks like a Standard Utility Truck or "Tilly". See the attached pic (source: http://www.standardmotorclub.org.uk/...ures/tilly.htm)

Attachment 33076

Rogier,

I went through your list of vehicles, but cannot see the Standard Utility Truck listed, only Austin Utility Trucks.

Hanno

Hanno,

thanks for identifying the car in the photo. The Standard Utility indeed does not appear to be in this list. My thoughts are twofold:
1. the list is from March 1943, the photo from 1945;
2. the vehicle does not belong to the Irene Brigade, but probably to the staff of 'Bevelhebber Nederlandse Strijdkrachten'. For comparison I attached a photo of Prins Bernhard's Mercedes.
(http://www.haagsebeeldbank.nl/hga:col1:dat246344)
Attachment 33092

I also found a photo of an Allied Opel Blitz in The Hague. According to the caption it is Canadian. Unfortunately unit markings are not clearly visible, however the marking on the left fender does look like the Irene Brigade marking.

Rogier

http://www.haagsebeeldbank.nl/hga:col1:dat246553
Attachment 33095

Hanno,

the photo that you originally started this topic with is also available in High-resolution:
http://www.haagsebeeldbank.nl/hga:col1:dat246646

The census number is H5558309.

At the Nederlands Fotomuseum website I found a photo showing a White Scoutcar, also the census number can be seen. I have attached this photo for easy reference.

Rogier, either option could be true, though I would place my bets on it being with the PIB. Like you said, the picture was made two years after the vehicle stock list was drawn up. By that time the "F.A. Guy tractor" was replaced by the Ford FGT as we have seen here.

Most likely PIB too, although the Canadians were renowed for "liberating" equipment.

Hanno

Edit - inserted new link to source: https://haagsgemeentearchief.nl/medi...1-01985adb472a
Attachment 117734


Rogier,

Thanks. One month later H5558309 was also pictured in Amsterdam!

Hanno,

thanks for your comments. However the Standard Utility does not bear Irene Brigade markings, neither does the unit number '120' seem to be one of the brigade's units.

Does anyone have some thoughts on the Opel's rear body? It does not seem to be a standard cargo bay.

Two more pictures of FGTs, H5558307 and H5558311, from www.beeldbankwo2.nl

This picture, found on the Prinses Irene Brigade museum website - www.fuseliers.net - clearly shows a CMP truck in the background.

While Rogier's listings does not specifically confirm nor exclude CMPs, we need do some more research to find out if CMP trucks were actually used by the Brigade.

H.

Fordson WOT2 found on http://www.gemeentearchiefroosendaal.nl.

Picture was taken in July 1945 and it is labelled as a border patrol truck.

Nice find Hanno. Any thoughts on the markings (unit number (?) 350 on the right fender and number 40401 on the left fender)?

Rogier,

Not really, I was wondering if this could be an ex-PIB WOT2 impressed as a border patrol truck? It could explain a mix of markings not fully attributable to the PIB. And of course the orange lion emblem was adopted on all Army vehicles after the war. But I would not think it was common by July 1945 already.

Attachment 38837

Thanks Hanno. I was thinking it may have belonged to one of the newly-formed army units formed in 1944 - 1945 an not necessarily be ex-PIB. For instance on the beeldbank WOII I came across a photo of a Stoottroepen Mercedes-Benz, marked with the Dutch lion emblem (and the stoottroepen markings), see images below.

Could anyone identify the exact type of Mercedes?

This Standard Utility looks to me to be carrying the sign of the Czech Brigade (lion on blue shield with red cross). Trouble is, with pics of poor resolution, that the Dutch (PIB), Belgian and Czech Brigades all carried a reasonably similar lion (at least to my non-heraldicly trained eyes), and it is quite hard to tell them apart.

However, one of the items on this thread has already remarked that the AOS number 120 does not seem to be recorded as having been issued to anyone!

Aren't these challenges interesting?

Chris;)

Thank you very much for your thoughts.

For comparison I've added the Dutch lion emblem as used by the PIB and the emblem of the Bevelhebber van de Nederlandse Strijdkrachten.

For the emblem of the Czech brigade see link. The Czech brigade seems to have used two-digit AOS numbers and was not in the Hague at the time the photo was taken.

This week I visited the Nationaal Archief and recorded some more info from the March 1943 vehicle listing. However please note the brigade also received lots of new vehicles before the invasion of mainland Europe.

Ford 4/6 ton
The Ford 4/6 ton trucks had census numbers L1284652 - L1284657. Hanno posted a photo of the well-known L1284657, the one that's after the twin in Berlin :).

Some more details about the 15 cwt trucks
The March 1943 list mentions the following 15 cwt trucks:
- truck 15 cwt 4x2 GS Ford (Platoon truck) census numbers Z1284570 - Z1284618 (Chassis numbers in the 7042xxx range)
- Fordson 15 cwt (platoon truck) 34 trucks numbered L1284700 - L1284714, L1284754 - L1284765, L1284769 - L1284771, L1284773, L1284780 - L1284782 (chassis numbers in the 5801xxx and 6144xxx range)
- Morris 15 cwt office L1284718, L1284750, L1284772
- Bedford 15 cwt (watertank) L1284766
- Bedford 15 cwt (truck) L1284744 - L1284745, chassis numbers MWD.29815 and MWD.31335

CMP trucks
The listing includes a number of lorry 30 Cwt 4x4 anti-tank portee Chevrolet, with the body work listed as ‘lorry' (probably portees converted to lorries). The census, engine and chassis numbers are as follows:
L1283906 - 3756113 - 1844031739
L1283907 - 3757924 - 1844030844
L1283908 - 3758799 - 1844031632
L1283909 - 3761417 - 1844031892
L1283910 - 3757652 - 1844031707
L1283911 - 3743653 - 1844032550
L1283912 - 3757996 - 1844030616
L1283913 - 50686 (?) - 1844031330

The chassis numbers are similar to the ones found on the 30 cwts in contract S/M 2028 as given in http://mapleleafup.org/forums/showthread.php?t=3824 .

Unidentified car
Finally, I would like to invite for opinions regarding the make and type of car in the attached picture. The photo found on the Haagse beeldbank at http://www.haagsebeeldbank.nl/hga:col1:dat254377 .

Attachment 39190

Hi Rogier:

Your vehicle is a Skoda, almost for sure a Popular of 1938 manufacture.
Thanks for an unusual photo, it is amazing where some of these cars ended up in 1945, 7 years and thousands of kilometers from home after a brutal war.

Bill