MLU FORUM - Wearing of uniforms (Canada)

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Terry, take a look at some of the other comments and you will see why these types of situations happen. He was probably 'just having fun'....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Storey (Post 181831)

For those who continue to wear their CF/DEU Uniform to military events long after retirement or those who are considering to continue this practice. Stop, take a good look at what Clive wrote, go and hang your old uniform in the closest and let it shrink with the other clothing. Now head out and purchase a nice blazer and flannels. On this legal civilian attire you can festoon it with all of bling acquired from a rewarding military career and wear it with honour to any military event.

This (with Wiser's clap for effect).

Or you could join any one (or several) of many service organizations that have a uniform, most of which would welcome a new and enthusiastic member. The RCL, ANAVETS, RCAFA, etc. I've got great mileage out of my RCAFA uniform in the near 2 years that I've been out. And a black suit with a white tuxedo dress shirt, bow tie and miniature medals has done the trick for those rare formal events.

My 2 cents, FWIW.

Things can get a little confusing for a civvy like myself.
The first time I went to Normandy I was mightily impressed with the number of people, re-enactors, vehicle crew etc that were wearing uniforms. This was not done in Australia.
Our ferry load of HMVs from Portsmouth pulled up on the side of the road just out of Cherbourg and I took one of those trick dog leads for a walk that has a wire down it and looks like you're walking an invisible dog.
I worked my way along the vehicles, on occasions making it look like the dog was peeing on wheels to get a reaction from onlookers.
At the head of the convoy was a group of fellows dressed as MPs. One was a plump jolly fellow who played along pretending to make the dog beg. Standing nearby was a haughty looking type dressed as an officer with beautifully polished, calf length boots. I walked over and without even thinking about it made it look as though the dog was peeing on his boot. I will never forget the withering look he gave me. I thought 'that blokes got no sense of humour at all!' and went on my way.
It was some time later that I realised the group at the head of the convoy were not re-enactors but French regular army.
Oh well, I'd done my bit for Anglo French relations. They had no way of knowing I was an Aussie.

David

David,While talking about French officers; There is a story about British army officers wearing red coats, so that when an officer was wounded, the troops couldn't see the blood, and followed confidently. The story goes on to tell about why French officers wear brown trousers.... :)

Better duck for cover there Lynn, Canadians come in two brands and some may lack humour. :no4:

Dave

Mistaken identity

Dave,
Your Normandy anecdote has reminded me of being there for the D-Day tour in 2004. Myself and an Aussie friend were in Courselles looking for a supermarket, no one to ask when I spotted two men in dark uniforms, beeches and riding boots, no hats. I said they will know, Gendarme motorcyclists ............. I went up and spoke in halted English with my question ......... the reply from one of them was "Sorry bud, we only just arrived here this week" ..... I then spotted the RCMP flash on his shoulder :doh:

Robert Morrison asked me to copy & paste the text below from the Vancouver Artillery Association & RUSI Vancouver Members newsletter:

Quote:

Royal Canadian Navy vets can’t wear uniforms without permission
By: Marco Chown Oved Staff Reporter, Published on Thu Jun 20 2013

Navy veterans will not be able to wear their uniforms at memorials and special events after the National Defence Headquarters in Ottawa issued a new nation-wide standing order last week.

[photo caption: Royal Canadian Navy Vice-Admiral Paul Maddison addresses a gala dinner in May in Ottawa, where some senior officers later complained that retired officers had worn their formal uniforms, or mess kits.]

Navy veterans will not be able to wear their uniforms at memorials and special events after the National Defence Headquarters in Ottawa issued a new nationwide standing order last week.
According to the order, all former service people in the Royal Canadian Navy must request permission in writing before wearing their uniforms at any event, including parades, war memorial celebrations and other formal functions. “Permission for former service members to wear uniforms is limited and revocable,” according to the five-page order dated June 13 obtained by the Star. “Requests by former RCN service members to wear uniforms, including mess dress, will be considered on a case-by-case basis. Such approval shall be limited to exceptional circumstances where the wearing of the uniform is necessary and will favourably contribute to the RCN.”

The order has caused an out roar among military veterans on social media. “F--- that,” wrote one Royal Canadian Air Force veteran on Facebook. “Wore mine getting married, even told the Navy while stuck with them ‘C’mon get me for wearing it.’ ” New Democrat defence critic Jack Harris (St. John’s East) called the order “outrageous and insulting.” “Canada’s veterans have bravely served this country and wear their uniforms with pride at ceremonies commemorating their service,” said Harris. “It shows an absolute lack of respect for this service to tell veterans that they now need to ask permission to wear their uniforms and show their pride for having served this country.”

The order seems to reinforce one already on the books, which requires veterans to get permission before wearing their uniforms. According to an FAQ on the Directorate of History and Heritage section of the National Defence and Canadian Forces website, vets are required to get permission before wearing their uniforms and are encouraged to wear only their medals and cap with civilian dress. That rule was routinely ignored during special occasions, such as Remembrance Day ceremonies and parades, said Michael Blais, the founder and president of Canadian Veterans Advocacy. But the new order may cast the net too wide and result in thousands of individual requests to wear uniforms during memorials, said the retired sergeant from the Royal Canadian Regiment. “It’s just ludicrous,” he said. “All the veterans of the Canadian navy in theory have to ask permission now from (Vice)-Admiral (Paul) Maddison in order to wear their beret on Remembrance Day.” The order was issued after senior naval officers complained that retired officers wore their formal uniforms, or mess kits, at a gala dinner held to commemorate the Battle of the Atlantic at the Canadian War Museum in early May.

“The mess kit is a formal uniform of active service members and is not to be worn after retirement,” wrote a senior naval officer in an email to a gala organizer. “This is clearly against Queen’s Regulations and Orders and cannot be condoned,” he wrote in the email obtained by the Star. Distinguishing between active and retired members is essential, the order states, because active members “remain sworn to unlimited liability if ordered into harm’s way, and therefore must be clearly recognizable as such.”

While most people who serve in the Canadian Forces return their uniforms when they leave active service, officers who purchase their own mess kits are allowed to keep them, said Deanna Simrite, secretary treasurer at Anavets Dominion Command. The rule prohibiting retired officers from wearing their uniform is intended to distinguish between those who retain contemporary mess kits and their active-duty counterparts with identical uniforms, she said.
“When you’re wearing a World War II navy uniform, no one is confusing you with a currently serving officer,” she said. “We don’t have a problem with that and I don’t think the (navy) has a problem with that.” Her organization has written to the Department of Defence suggesting that it issue a clarification.

“Maybe you should put out a very clear directive on where and what is appropriate for veterans to wear. And that would be a lot easier. I’m sure the navy doesn’t want to deal with a whole bunch of requests to wear old naval caps to Remembrance Day.”

The RCN held its change of command ceremony Thursday without notifying the media and did not return calls for comment on the order.

You have to wonder if they even have the authority to order this. I can see it applying to retirees wearing a current order of dress but if one is wearing a uniform that has been declared obsolete and removed from the ‘official’ orders of dress they shouldn’t have any control of it.

Let's put this to rest.
In spite of a letter from DND, media still try to excite readers with their twist.

Quote:

Letter to the Editor
The Wearing of Uniforms by Veterans – Clarification

June 24, 2013

Letter to the Editor: 45e Nord, All Maritime Morning Newstalk Radio, CBC (Power and Politics, Inside Politics, TV), Frontline Magazine, Globe and Mail, National Post, Ottawa Citizen, Times Colonist

To the Editor:

I regret that a lack of clarity and misreporting of a recently released internal order related to the wearing of uniforms after release from active service has resulted in avoidable confusion and insult to veterans.

The Royal Canadian Navy holds veterans in the highest regard and has no intent or authority to limit the wearing of older orders of dress, such as wartime patterns. Historic headdress, medals, and uniforms that are no longer in use are explicitly exempt from our authority. Their use in celebrating previous service and sacrifice should continue and be encouraged.

The intent of the order was simply to inform serving members – and by extension those retired members still affiliated with the RCN through our messes and other organizations under our influence – of the protocols associated with a long-standing regulation about wearing current pattern uniforms, specifically Mess Dress (a formal evening uniform), after retirement. This specific pattern of uniform still exists and is worn by active serving members. It is important therefore to avoid any confusion in identity between those who are on active service and those who are retired and no longer subject to the same rules and expectations as their serving colleagues.

The desired outcome is to have a process that both respects the regulations as well as honours those who are no longer serving.

Vice-Admiral Mark Norman, CMM, CD
Commander RCN

Clive

Thank you Clive, A nice clear, common sense result, which probably defines the rules in my own country, and the one I am living in as well. Everyone should be happy.

Try and stop me.

The first jack-hole that tells me I can't wear the uniform I wore while serving in the CF is going to get a size 12 Wide combat boot impression on their back-side! I turned all my kit in when I left the CF and somehow ended up with a set of summer-weight DEUs, two sets of combats, Coveralls, Anti-Fod, and a set of desert tans. I wear them to both Remembrance Day and Memorial Day ceremonies as well as Military shows to educate the public.

I thought that this post had been put to bed, especially as Clive had attached Vice-Admiral Norman's letter to the media. Too bad the educator does not understand the rules. No wonder Texans do not know anything about Canada...

Please, take a minute reread the complete post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Storey (Post 182201)

Pul-leeze, more central canadian arrogance and ignorance. That's why I was happy to leave Canada and move to an area where freedom and liberty aren't silly little catchwords but are practiced every day.

Here's a popular joke from the West Coast:

Question:

How many Toronto electricians does it take to change a light bulb?

Answer:

One. He just stands there and holds it while the Universe revolves around him.

Any time you want to put your knowledge of Canada and Texas up against my knowledge of Canada and Texas, you're on, I'll eat your frikkin' lunch!

Hanno, let Ed read this before deleting it please.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sapper740 (Post 182197)

I cannot support your decision as it is illegal and I have spent most of my adult life involved in enforcement and/or compliance roles. That said, I do admire your desire to respect the sacrifices made by the CAF. However, at what point do you go from representing the Army to being perceived as a person of ridicule? A year or two after retirement you probably still look good. Ten years later you start to look a little silly. It is only after 30 or 40 years later you would fall into that group of veterans that we see every year on November 11, wearing their old WWII uniforms, and we smile and wave.
Clive

Posted by Ed Storey:
"No wonder Texans do not know anything about Canada..."

Hi Ed,

I would think that anyone who is so far removed, as in living in Texas, who portrays any branch of Commonwealth military forces, no matter what era, would be given a "thumbs-up" for their efforts on this forum.

Your opinion is noted, but as with all opinions, everyone has one. :)

Thanks, David

The rules concerning uniforms have been explained and this forum has run its course.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sapper740 (Post 182220)

Hanno, let Ed read this before deleting it please.

Derek,

I am not ging to delete it but I am asking all participants to think twice before shooting from the hip. :teach:

Thanks,
Hanno
MLU Administrator

I understand that the British permit retired members to continue to wear their uniforms post retirement provided there is the addition of an embroidered "R" patch to the epaulettes or sleeves to indicate the wearer's status. This seems like a good solution to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hans Mulder (Post 182268)

The "R" has always represented officers on the Reserve List, not retired.
Clive

Quote:

Originally Posted by David DeWeese (Post 182239)

Well said David. I was pleasantly surprised when I first arrived in Texas at how many reenactors here do a Commonwealth impression. I'm never the "Lone Canuck" no matter if I'm doing my 1 Canadian Parachute Battalion or my RCE impression. Further, I was truly surprised to see several Texans in a Legion Etrangere reenactment group who's leader speaks French fluently. Zut alors!

:cheers: Derek