Book of the Month Club - Hammond Style
 

Jordan, This is evidence that as you age, the types of bodies that excite you change - 25 to 30 years ago, you would have seen Bob staring at Playboy or various editions of National Geographic. Now, he is more interested in the anatomy of trucks. You would be hard pressed to find a book that did not directly or indirectly relate to CMPs in the barn.

Alex, Bob knows how to read. Usually while "multi-tasking" in the bathroom...

hEY.....
 

I can wread and rite....... and can count one carby, two carby, three carby and anoder one and anodur one......

Seriously.... trying to figure out the various cast iron bases on the multi YF carburators I have...... and using specs on jet size from the manuals.....but for once my books are too old and are good for 1940 WW II era but my 1959 chev 261 used YF models that came later..... so either do the web or dig out more old books...... Had a Carter YF rebuilt but it came back with the small throat...small bolt pattern of the 216 and early 235...... I do have a larger bolt pattern throttle assembly on another carb but not sur if I can swap the parts.......concerned that the jets maybe too small for the cfm sucked by the 261........ will be back to the Toronto Oak brothers in March for look and learn session........

Boob..... never too old to learn...

Snow Buildup
 

Hi Bob, Thanks to that Texan weather front, we are expecting between 20-30 cm of snow today. That build up will be a concern... I won't be able to get out to the barn until Thursday. Will you check on the shelters tonight?

carter Carbs
 

Bob
You will find some info here..

http://www.carbkitsource.com/manuals/index.html

Sno....what snow???
 

Waiting for the end of the day to blow some of the stuff around....hoping by then most of the snow fall wll have ended.....

Quite windy...... from expereince on windy storms roof will not accummulate as much as a slow heavy sticky downfall...... although by Thrusday evening we will need to shake tings around a bit......

Actually home today on R&R otherwise known as a late supper the night before that backfired.......Yeck!!!!

Bob

R&r
 

You missed the demolition derby this morning - lucky you! So, you are backfiring...maybe your timing is off, or you have bad gas...that's what you getfor hanging around the HUP...

SnoReport.....all is well!!!!
 

Canvas Winter garages are doing well....no urgency to clean them up.... the wind kept the light fluffy snow from pilling up on the roof and rather drifted it around the shelters. The worst might be your little green shelter that seems to hold snow more than the others.

Road to the barn is all cleaned up..... two hours of fun and merryment....

Back to the salt mines tomorrow.

Bob

Allways interested in what you guys get up to in your barn,keep up the good work.

Inigma...
 

The boys spent most of the morning working on cleaning off shelters, snow removal and other bits of administration. The weather was going to warm up, so we decided to help with the melting process. Grant took to cleaning the barn roof and Bob and I cleaned off some shelters. Clive's shelter was really laden with snow as it sits in a sheltered area and collects more snow that the others.

Later on in the morning, we hauled out the 45 HUP to troubleshoot the ignition. The first task was to set up the timing marks using the "Waterman" technique. After finding Top Dead Center, a wire was attached to the two inspection plate screws at the top of the bell housing. A quick mark with a chisel and a dab of yellow paint later, we were done with that task.

Next was to start the old girl. But, she wouldn't start for love or money. Plugs were checked. Wiring checked. Points checked. Firing sequence checked. We replaced the coil temporarily, but no luck. Finally, the condenser was pulled and replaced and the truck tried to start. After cleaning up the starter and replacing the small wire that runs from the ignition switch to the coil, the engine coughed to life.

After a few minutes of warming up, we attached the timing light (after undoing the vacuum line) and set the timing as best we could. After a good warm up period, we adjusted the timing. The truck accelerated in such a manner as to suggest that something was out of sorts. Previously the truck ran very smoothly, but now it accelereates roughly. It wasn't a warm day by any stretch of the imagination, but after a few hours of hovering over the engine, we got a bit fatiqued. We will try to adjust the timing a few degrees either way to see if that makes a difference.

If there are any 235 engine experts out there, please feel free to weigh in on timing secrets...

Photos:
1. Grant on avalanche control duties
2. Bob getting intimate with the HUP
3. The Waterman timing mark setup
4. Clive's laden shelter (on the verge of collapse...)
5. Clive's relieved shelter

Timing 235
 

Hi Guys

What are you trying to set the distributor timing to TDC, 5degrees before TDC? Not sure what the Canadian 235 is intended for, my 1960 manual US truck manual http://www.canadianmilitarypattern.c...e%20Manual.htm suggest that it should be 5 BTDC. With the vacuum line disconnected and the cover open on the manifold, not sure what this last bit means. I have not posted section 7 of the manual but I will this week.

When it is running with the vacuum line disconnected does the timing advance when you speed up? Had a problem with one distributor that the mechanical advance stopped working. In my case it was mud wasps that had gotten in through the hole in the bottom of the distributor and plugged things up. Quick check of the mechanical advance is to remove the distributor cap and gently twist the rotor it should move a few degrees and when released should spring back. Also had a problem with a vacuum diaphragm failing.

Cheers Phil

Puzzled.....
 

...like Rob said it was a relatively nice day hovering around 0C and to avoid the exhaust fumes we worked outside by the barn door.

First thing to do was find TDC...... remove the half moon cover on the flywheel underneath and tweak the flywheel with a pry bar to get exactly TDC. We then remove the small inspection cover from the top of the bellhousing and installed a stiff wire between the two screws then marked the clutch housing with a chisel and yellow paint.

We checked the gap on the points twice..... checked wiring sequence at least 3 times..... applied juice .... no spark..... ran the 6 volt starter a bit too long..... lost all power.... Rob took off the starter... took it apart.....cleaned the segments with a hack saw blade.... washed the inside with degreaser spray.... lubed spline and bushings and reassembled. Ran good and strong.

Still no spark.... my fail safe test is to remove a spark plug wire.... insert a screwdriver in the rubber boot.... hold the screwedriver in my hand while touching the sparkplug tip with the back of my hand.... if I don't jump or twitch..... no spark for sure.

By process of elimination..... and thank God for all the spare parts I acquired from Ebay over the years.... finally found out the condenser was fried.... why???? who knows.

Got it running...... disconnected the vacuum line from the carb...plugged the open hole in carb....... timing was off..... loosen dizzy screw and twisted dizzy until yellow line was TDC....... this is according to the 58 GM manual for 235 and 261....... mine works that way to. Tightened dizzy screw.... checked again ...TDC...... reconnected vacuum line..... at that point the yellow marker moves away by 10 to 15 degrees...... as you rev up the engine the dizzy twists with the vacuum.....

The puzzle..... before the engine ran super smooth but backfired through the carb whenever the engine was revved up...

Now the engine does not backfire but runs rough as if something was out of balance..... back to checking the firing order.... still fine..... engine is not knocking or valves clacking and vacuum is steady at 22 inches..... picks up revs but shakes like it is out of balance...... removed on plug wire at a time..... no noticeable differences except a slight drop in rpm

Some older 235 or 216 manuals called for 5 degrees BTDC..... this is an early 235..... maybe.....

Well time ran out..... will have to do it again.....

The hilite of the day was using Phil's trick of removing the inspection cover from the bellhousing.... holding the strobe light just at 90 degrees you can see the shadow of the wire over the yellow line we had painted.

But now the timing process is a 3 man job.... me inside the cab on the strobe light....Grant holding a long screwdriver in the locking screw of the dizzy while trying to avoid the spinning fan blade and Rob twisting the dizzy ever so slightly and holding it while the screw is tightened. Sure makes it very intimate...... but it was fun !!!!

Suggestions and / or comments welcomed....

Boob

Diagnostic questions
 

Hi Rob and Bob

Sounds like an old radio show. But any way couple of diagnostic questions some of which you answered Bob.

1. The vacuum advance is working - you confirmed that bob
2. Is the centrifugal advance working, it should advance as you take the engine from idle to about 1000 rpm
3. You say that the engine doesn't back fire but runs rough - have you checked to see if it is a particular cylinder

Like your method of checking for spark, I generally try to get somebody else to hold the plug wires.

The running rough once the engine starts reminds me a little of the starting problems I've had with my HUP when it has not run for a couple weeks, once it would catch it would run rough for several minutes before finally smoothing out it did this fairly consistently if the engine had not been run for about two weeks, never did find the cause. This is one of the reasons I plan to put the HUP engine on the test stand see if I can track down the cause.

Keep us posted on you progress

Cheers Phil

Note for Rob.....
 

Next time we need to add your video recorder....particularly the sound track
which ...hopefully... will capture the low frequency rumble..... of the engine running as if out of balance. Rob do you have a provision for plugging a remote microphone into your video recorder.....?

The engine almost felt and sounded as if a large chunk of something was attached (frozen) to the crankshaft and rotating out of round.....

In reviewing an old Chilton manuals last night, I confirmed that the setting should be TDC for the 235.....

Also..... the 1958 GM manuals talks baout a cylinder balance test to determine if one cylinder is being dragged by the rest of the engine. It calls for systematiclly grounding four of the 6 cylinders with the engine running in a particularly paired order..... and recording rpm drop and vacuum drop.....

Something to consider for the next mild day.....

Bob

Thanks guys,
I have been remiss in my barnyard duties but claim new books and much travel as my excuses. :whinge
Clive

Take a look at test stand videos
 

Hi Bob

Great minds must run in sync, about grounding out individual cylinders to find the source of a problem. Adding in taking video and sound recording improves on the old test of just grounding out the plugs one at a time.

Did this trying to track down a noise on the engine that went into the C60L video link http://www.canadianmilitarypattern.c...PANDED%201.wmv.

If you want to hear what my 235 sounds like here is the link http://www.canadianmilitarypattern.c...l%20videos.wmv all the engine videos are on http://www.canadianmilitarypattern.c...ineTesting.htm .

People may think I'm nuts for all the photos and videos I shoot of the CMPs (they're probably right) one of my reasons is of course to share but the other is that I use the videos and photos to cogitate over problems.

Question this engine did run smooth at one time after it was rebuild correct? The roughness is something that has developed? If the engine is suddenly unbalanced in its running along with backfiring I would begin to suspect that an intake valve is sticking open. Remember I had this problem with the 261 engine a couple of months after it was rebuilt, in my case the valve finally stuck.

Cheers Phil

Comments.....
 

The cylinder balance test from GM calls for grounding 4 plugs and running engine on just two cylinders.....something I have yet to see.....

NOTE...engine was never rebuilt....but was a good running engine....as early as before Xmas it ran very smooth......

Stuck valve I believe would make different noise if stuck open.... not sure if we would hear anything if stuck closed....but if closed something would happen to the push rods..... may be it has....?

Is it possible....just maybe..... with the engine stored at -30C that some small amount of water could have frozen in one of the drilled out holes in the crankshaft...the ones they drill at the factory to balance the counter weights....... and we did not run the engine long enough to really get it to operating temp.... holes are about 1 1/4 inch wide...up to an inch deep.... if it held water frozen it might be enough to unbalance the engine....

Strange is the engine ran fine....vacuum was good.... picked up revs easy with no backfire..... but vibrated in a very low frequency rumble that picked up with higher revs.

Bob

Surely the combination of outside temperature just below freezing and the engine running would have melted any ice inside the engine? I didn't feel the oil pan temperature but if it got reasonably warm the rest of the engine can't have too far behind in the warmup - to my mind...

Stress Not!
 

Clive, Your shelter is in good hands. You keep up the good work with the book business, we will take care of the snow...

I'm looking for the Smilie that blows kisses....
C.

(Who the Hell is Kisses you are asking :yappy:)

Guys, not wishing to put you on a wrong track, but I had similar problems once with a VW Beetle. Started up fine, but would not run smoothly when revving up, whether driving or running free.
In the end it turned out a wire in the distributor connecting the rotating breaker points plate to the fixed base of the distributor had broken, so the points were badly grounded.
Took a lot of head scratching and replacing of parts to find that one!

Hanno

Prefair Trip - Montreal
 

I am heading to Mount Royal tomorrow (actually Beloeil) to vist Prefair/Sail. Let me know if you want me to recce anything for you.

Wanted: Post WWII metal spare gas container
 

I am looking for a post WWII US spare gas steel container (20 L/5 gal) suitable for my brother-in-laws jeep.......... must be in serviceable condition (hold gas, no leaks.....) If you find one, please pick up...... I have some of the CDN green plastic spare gas containers, but he wants one made of steel.......

Do a recce in the storage containers in the back yard. Lots of Iltis parts.. bring me back two of each....... (just kidding of course, I think I already have 2 of each........)

Cheers!
Stuart

I sent you a PM on a couple items I would like you to recce for me.

recce
 

I will assist where I can and will sent a sitrep later tomorrow. Best to post future requests on the Hammond Barn thread. Thanks

:ergh:comparing a good CMP with a VW!!!!!!! :doh: :bang: :D

Same basic automotive technology, eh? :thup2:

Prefair udate
 

Bob,The best they can do on the two frames is.$800 for both. Call me w your view.

Stuck valve
 

Bob..If it was a stuck valve you would get a racket from the push rod/lifter area..but anything is possible..bad gas..accelerator pump..did you do a compression test..??
That will tell you right away..Do a dry one and then squirt in a little motor oil (wet test) and that will tell you if it is a valve or a ring or could even be a piston skirt..
That would account for your balance thoughts..but a wet and dry compression test will tell you lots.
With out doing that first you are poking in the dark..
(If you need a compression testing gauge,I have one here kicking around some where ..you can borrow it)
:drunk: :sheep:

prefair
 

One AA gun has been sold. One is being negotiated ($7500 per) leaving one available.

No metal gas cans

No good tires available but some 20 x11s remain.

Two 3/4 ton trailers at 400 each - were genny tlrs.

Two jeeps - civ Willis types dated 59 or so

Field telephones 15 each

Combat shirts and pants at 3 each.

ETD 15 mins

Thanks for the comments....
 

Cylinder balance test.....compression test..... and yes I have a gauge...

Will also re check the plugs to see if one is not firing.... they were very black when we cleaned them up just before Xmas.... and running smooth at the time.....

When I think about it..... it is almost as if one cylinder was dragging... a dead weight........causing the engine to vibrate..... don't think it is a valve but will probably remove the valve cover..... look at it while running.... re-check valve adjustments.... verify all electrical connections.....

Above all will make sure it is warmed up sufficiently...... will cover the rad opening....