Re: Re: Re: Catching up.
 

No, I remember you mentioning it before

I must have missed the notification sent to Ottawa regarding Joseph's death. Puzzled though, why Ottawa would still address letters, etc to Joseph, up to two years after his death. The only correspondence I came across regarding (or addressed to) Mary Smith, was in regards to her share of Edward's estate, etc. Need new eyes I guess, or maybe a break. :D

Re: rifleman, Smith Edward
 

Thank you Norm, your words mean a lot to me, that you honestly appreciate my feelings and interest in wanting to know and share what I know with people around me ... especially my family ... remember that I would not have got so far in knowledge about my Uncle and others, without you and others helping me and cheering me on in this ... and showing me how and in what ways I should appreciate what my Uncle ... and others accomplished and sacrificed ... and why. I learn "deeper and wider" every day ... especially with Geoff by my side now too :)

You people won't let me give up at this point either :D But I don't want to anyways.

I love your honesty with your stories of experiences ... i love the thoughts and feelings you share Norm. Thank you for that. You "were there" ... that means the world to me and opens my ears when you talk ... as does Art and other Vets. You were THERE. You're the best teachers we have.

I think that Rifleman Edward Smith H/42084 would have totally enjoyed your company! and you his ... I like to think so ;)

Karmen

Re: Re: Re: Re: Catching up.
 

Yeah, maybe ya need a break old fart :) I'm sorry I didn't have the papers properly organized so you could more easily spot this stuff.

Maybe Granny didn't "officially" inform people, just jotted that little note, and the person/people reading them didn't pick up on it at that time? I don't know.

Enjoy some R&R Mark ... you deserve a little break ... and your eyes need them too :)

MARK ...
 

MARK,

I can't remember if I actually sent you an email asking you this or not, so here goes:

Do you have a scanner, and if so, would you be into scanning and emailing me a copy of Uncle Ed's death registration so that I can send that to the War graves site so they can update/correct his age in their site? Geoff's scanner is still down ...

Karmen

Re: MARK ...
 

No, you did not send me an e-mail regarding this, but you did send me a PM regarding it, so I guess I'd better get off me arse and copy and send it to you...... :D

Re: Re: MARK ...
 

I said yore old eyes needed a break, not yore old arse you old Grandpappy-ish fart :p :D

(Thank you much, Mark :) )

Karmen

Re: Re: Re: MARK ...
 

Ya cheeky 'Ancient Fart'...after reading your above mentioned quote, me thinks I'll have to think about doing this little favor for ya.....besides, I need the time to remember exactly where it is I put the file in this very large 'Filing Cabinet/Library' I live in..... :p

Oh well, in the mean time, its time or a :smoker: or :smoker: :smoker:, .... Oh and a coffee...and then maybe, I'll remember where the file is.

P.S. .....don't hold your breath.......:D

Re: Re: Re: Re: MARK ...
 

:D ... I sorta figured you'd do it when you could etc ... theres no time limit involved and its a favor anyways. Sometime this year would be good though if you're going to do it :p ... now its time for my coffee and :smoker:

:D

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MARK ...
 

I've penciled it in for 2359hrs Saturday, 31 Dec 2005, if an earlier slot becomes available I will advise..............maybe..........:p

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MARK ...
 

I can wait ... I've been waiting since I got here for the scanner to be connected so I'm used to waiting. Beggars can't be choosers eh? :D

Eh???
 

Mark,

What took you so long? :p :D

Thank you so very much for this ... you've just taken part in making sure Rifleman Edward Smith has his age corrected in the Canadian Virtual War Museum site ( as soon as I get a couple of more things together for them to send "all at once" if possible.

BTW ... you DID happen to notice the date Uncle Ed's death was "Registered" did you?

7 MARCH 1946 (almost 2 years after his actual death. Why did it take so long to "officially" list his "death"? Any ideas?)

And of course it has him listed as "KIA"

(I just tried to upload the scan of the registration just so everyone could see it but MLU says it was too big)

Karmen

Re: Eh???
 

Originally posted by Vets Dottir
7 MARCH 1946 almost 2 years after his actual death. Why did it take so long to "officially" list his "death"? Any ideas?

The Registration of Death is from the Province of Manitoba - paper work flow between federal and and provincial government agencies probably

Originally posted by Vets Dottir
I just tried to upload the scan of the registration just so everyone could see it but MLU says it was too big


You mean this:

Yep
 

Mark,

SHOWOFF :p :)

Yet again, my friend HBM-O, MA :yappy: thanks you ... (sincerely :) )

Karmen

Re: Yep
 

Your Welcome.............I think....... :p

Cheers :D

PS:
 

BTW Mark ... if there's anything in those records you'd like to post in here, you have my blessings. I'd love to hear the conversations started from them ... just more education for ignormamous me. Plus it fleshes out my own knowledge regards my Uncle and that whole "happening" too ;)
I found many things interesting and know those records were viewed and date stamped many times through the course of investigations and such. I trust your judgment completely with regards anything you chose to post. When I look at them, I don't "appreciate" the "signifigance" of a lot of stuff, but you would, being the historian, and Military type that you are ;) also knowing your "family" has some connection to RWR's and WW2. One of the things I love about you-all and this place is that what I learn through you-all teaches me the "signifigance" of what I'm learning. This is important.

K.

Re: PS:
 

I was going to post the witness statements, etc, back on the orignial thread, probably within the next day or so, but the notification telegrams etc, here. Would that be Ok?

Cheers :)

Re: Re: Yep
 

Don't "think" ... "KNOW" it is so ... thanks!;) :)

Re: Re: PS:
 

See my 2nd last post anout ya got my blessings... and I'm eager to read anything you comment or post from, or regards, the records. :salute:

(ooops... bluddy typos's ... gotta keep editing them. Must be the Irish in me (Jamesons :D ) :cheers:

Re: Rifleman Smith, Edward
 

The first notification received by Edward's parents, sent by the Director of Records, National Defence Headquarters, Ottawa. Sent by telegram on 25 June, 1944:

Re: Rifleman Smith, Edward
 

Letter (dated: 29 June, 1944) Edward's parents received from the Director of Records (NDHQ-Ottawa), it is a formal follow-up letter to the telegram of 25 Jun 44.

Re: Rifleman Smith, Edward
 

Letter (dated: 11 October, 1944) Edward's parents received from the Director of Records (NDHQ-Ottawa), it is a formal follow-up letter to the letter of 29 Jun 44.

Re: Re: Rifleman Smith, Edward
 

Yes ... 4 JUNE 1945 ... they finally received the official KIA notice. 3 and a half months later Grandpa ( and great Grandpa Louis Viznaugh) died in the house fire, so Grandpa knew very little about Uncle Ed's fate. Mixed blessing as far as I'm concerned.

Mark ... thanks for posting these things. The most heartwrenching piece of paper in there, for me, was the photocopy of a handwritten letter from Grandpa Joe right after Grandpa rceived the MIA telegrams.

karmen

Re: Re: Re: Rifleman Smith, Edward
 

Karmen;

See the beginning of this thread, I've corrected my post of Edward's Record of Service, I missed the 7 June, 1945 date as being the date that he was SOS X-6 List (Missing - RWR) - need new eyes me thinks.....

Re: Rifleman Smith, Edward
 

Hi Mark,

Thanks for that correction/addition :)

Can you explain to me why he would have been SOS as MISSING 8 June 44... then TOS 9 June 44 then SOS again 7 June 45?

The terminology "Taken On/Off Strength" ... seems "odd terminology" to use for covering the span between "missing and confirmed killed"???

Just wondering.

Karmen

Re: Re: Rifleman Smith, Edward
 

Hi Karmen;

Don't panic, I just deleted four posts, but will re-post them shortly, there was a letter from May 45, that was mixed in with his estate papers, that shouldn't have been there. Whoever had the file before me....hmmm....;)

To answer your question:

- on 8 Jun 1944- he was - Reported Missing - so he was Stricken off Strength of the Royal Winnipeg Rifles - in the field (France) - because he was missing - his name was more or less moved from the actual 'effective strength listing' of the battalion, to the list carrying the 'missing' members of the battalion (at that point in time).

- on 9 Jun 1944 - he was officially - Taken on Strength of the X-6 List (Missing - RWR) - this meant that he was no longer being carried on the 'effective strength' of the battalion ( he wasn't with the battalion at this point in time), but was being carried on the list of missing.

- on 7 Jun 1945 - he was Stricken off Strength of the X-6 List (Missing - RWR) - because it had been confirmed that he had been killed 8 June, 1944 - in the field (France) - so he was no longer considered missing.

The simple meaning of 'Taken on Strength' is that the battalion gained a person, and the reverse for 'Stricken off Strength' - the battalion lost a person. The same would apply to his being 'Taken on Strength' of the X-6 List - the list gained another name and the reverse for 'Stricken off Strength' - a name was taken off the list.

Does this answer your question?

I'll re-post the deleted posts shortly. :teach: needs a :smoker:

Cheers :)

Re: Rifleman Smith, Edward
 

Letter (dated: 31 May, 1945) received by Edward's parents from the Director of Records (NDHQ-Ottawa), indicating that he may be dead, based on information received since the letter of 11 Oct 44.

Re: Rifleman Smith, Edward
 

The notification received by Edward's parents, sent by the Director of Records (NDHQ-Ottawa), informing them that Edward was now being officially reported as having been Killed in Action on 8 June, 1944. Sent by telegram on 4 June, 1945:

Re: Rifleman Smith, Edward
 

Letter (dated: 7 June, 1945) Edward's parents received from the Adjutant-General (NDHQ-Ottawa), it is a formal follow-up letter to the telegram of 4 Jun 45.

Re: Rifleman Smith, Edward
 

Letter (dated: 14 June, 1945) sent to the Officer-in-Command, Records (Canadian Military Headquarters-London (UK)) from the Administration Officer, 1st Canadian War Crimes Investigation Unit (North-West Europe). Half way down the attached list (not posted here) appears the following entry:

H-42084 Rfmn Smith, E. RWR (along with his Plot/Row/Grave info)

Re: Rifleman Smith, Edward
 

Army Message (dated: 4 October, 1945) that was sent from the Records Office - NDHQ(Ottawa) to the Records Office - CMHQ(London) regarding Battle Casualties AEF (Ailled Expeditionary Force). I have only posted the top portion of the message, the bottom portion lists the 31 names mentioned, with Edward's appearing at the top of the left hand column (H42084 Rfmn Smith E).